On this week's Industrial Talk we're onsite at IoT Solutions World Congress and talking to Vesku Turtia, Regional Sales Director with Armis about “Identifying and Securing your Digital Transformation Strategy”.  Get the answers to your “Connected Assets” questions along with Vesku's unique insight on the “How” on this Industrial Talk interview!

Finally, get your exclusive free access to the Industrial Academy and a series on “Why You Need To Podcast” for Greater Success in 2022. All links designed for keeping you current in this rapidly changing Industrial Market. Learn! Grow! Enjoy!

VESKU TURTIA'S CONTACT INFORMATION:

Personal LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/veskuturtia/

Company LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/armis-security/

Company Website: https://www.armis.com/

PODCAST VIDEO:

THE STRATEGIC REASON “WHY YOU NEED TO PODCAST”:

OTHER GREAT INDUSTRIAL RESOURCES:

NEOM:  https://www.neom.com/en-us

Hitachi Vantara: https://www.hitachivantara.com/en-us/home.html

Industrial Marketing Solutions:  https://industrialtalk.com/industrial-marketing/

Industrial Academy: https://industrialtalk.com/industrial-academy/

Industrial Dojo: https://industrialtalk.com/industrial_dojo/

We the 15: https://www.wethe15.org/

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PODCAST TRANSCRIPT:

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

iot solutions, Armis, cybersecurity, connected, secure, iot, conversation, connect, industry, digital transformation journey, companies, industrial, devices, assets, iot devices, cybersecurity strategy, talking, innovation

00:00

Industrial Talk is brought to you by Armis. Yes, you were in the digital transformation game. Yes, you need to find trusted companies, trusted individuals to help you along with that journey. The Armis platform delivers complete asset intelligence, you know what that means, insights into your connected assets, you're in the digital transformation game, you have to have that insights into what is connected, go to armis.com Find out more, you will not be disappointed. Also industry IoT Consortium. At industrial talk, we always talk about education, we always talk about collaboration, we are always talking about innovation. And if you're a business that has any desire to be resilient to the future, you need to be able to educate, collaborate, as well as innovate with other industry professionals. That's a must. Industry IoT consortium brings that all together, you need to be a part of this community, you need to be connected with these leaders that are all apart the Industry IoT consortium, go out to iiconsortium.org. Find out more again, you will not be disappointed. You're just going to be happy. Hey there, and welcome to industrial talk. Thank you very much for joining. We are broadcasting. Well, we are on site at IoT Solutions World Congress, we had a great time we were broadcasting from that location, it is a must attend event. So put that on your calendar that is in Barcelona. That's the IoT solutions World Congress. Now, in the hot seat, we have a gentleman by the name of Vesku Turtia, and he is with a company called Armis. He is the Regional Sales Director for them. And we're just talking about the ability to be able to identify your assets. If you're in the digital transformation game, identify those assets, secure those assets, so that you can reap the benefits of this digital transformation journey, it's important for you to be able to identify all your assets, and Armus is leading the way. So enjoy the conversation.

02:16

Yeah, you haven't heard conference.

02:18

So far, So good. We started today. So there's a lot of people in the conference rooms in the different presentations. But yeah, I mean, people are passing by the booth. And so far, so good. No complaints.

02:33

No, I wouldn't listen to you. If you had any complaints, I would say. Forget it. Forget it. All right. So some of the information or some of the conversations that we were having at this particular event, IoT Solutions World Congress, how about that for plug another one? Is that, okay? We have made the determination from an industry perspective that we want to connect pretty much everything. And I mean, everything they want to, they want to connect with my dog for whatever reason, but they want to connect to everything. And one of the conversations that I think that needs to happen is how do you secure that? Talk to us a little bit about Armis, securing that connected, because if you're not connect if you're not securing it, this whole digital transformation journey, whatever it might be, is all for naught. Right?

03:18

Yeah, exactly. And, you know, for the CISOs of the modern companies today, I mean, they have a pretty, pretty tough job. And as Today we talk about the IoT, this fear, so, so a lot of people doesn't even realize and understand that, that in the today's connected world, there are way more IoT devices connected to corporate networks than PCs and mobile phones. So therefore, in order to make a specific and very good cybersecurity strategy, the first questions that everybody should ask, Do I understand what I have connected to my network? If I don't, I mean, making making a solid cybersecurity strategy becomes quite difficult if you don't know and control what do you have connected in your in your network? So that's what we do. We help companies to get to knowledge what they have connected internet,

04:15

because the reality is, is that here's this IoT world, if somebody tripped out IoT or industry to Dotto, right, and it's like, okay, everything, we're going to connect everything, that's one, and then that it's sort of like cart before the horse type of deal. You mean, I can just stick that device out on this pump, and I can measure it, but nobody really thought at that particular time. They just sort of put it out there collecting data. Oh, good. But the the vulnerability that exists, exactly. How does RMS ensure that you see everything? What needs to be seen?

04:49

Yeah, well, I mean, we'd like to talk about two types of devices. We talk about Manage Devices and and manage devices to manage devices as the ones were You can wait, you can put a program in it like an SDR. So you can put an h in there. And then the announcement is devices are these that you can't because you know, IP cameras, blah, blah, blah, you know, you name it, there are tons of I mean, I can't even name half of the IoT devices or devices that are out there. But there are more than mobile phones and PCs, what I just mentioned. So what we do, we work with our agent, because we can't automate and build those devices, because by the design they've made, you can't do that. So by listening to network traffic, and putting our collectors to the strategic places of the customers networks, we can then give an inventory real time, what the customers have in connected in the network. And then the inventory. We call it discovery. It's a great piece. But after you have that one, do you know what happened? Scott? No, the inventory changes day by day. You're right about that? Yeah, exactly. So So if when you have the inventory, then you have to monitor that. So we do that 24 By seven, obviously, in the passive mode, we work with the hospitals, we work with the critical industries. So we need to be 100% passive, so we do that. So we monitor that. And then the third part is the security assets, you know, so how we do that, we do that through integrations with the third party products with the sub with the different CRMs, with SDRs, with CMP DS with tax and everything. So so so we have a buddy of everybody, so so. So we listen to the traffic, we tell you what you got. And then through the integrations we we had the customers to do due to be more secure and avoid those famous ransomware lateral movements from IoT device to another it demons.

07:04

There appears to be an education here that the industry needs to go through. I think just like anything else, you come to an event like this, and you're you get exposed to a lot of great, great, you know, solutions. Do you find that there is a potential gap with the cyber conversation with many of these solutions? Like, great, you're in the you're in critical infrastructure? How are you protecting that? And I think it would be a natural conversation.

07:39

Yeah, it is. It is. I mean, I'm not telling your name. But you know, there was 111 customer, one customer came to talk to me and they are in the water treatment business. So So

07:51

Josh. So social better treat that water properly.

07:56

Absolutely. So so that's the thing that we get some to tap and we drink it and stuff like that. But you know, in this particular case, they said that we have all servers, they've never failed. So So our strategy is not to touch them. And I said, Why are you sure about that? So so the apparent education, what you meant, I mean, it really depends. You know, the cyber world. I mean, I like to use the common sense thing, you know, if you get an email that you don't know, if there's a you know, weird things, but still, you know, 80% of the people, they still have to go and click the link and stuff like that. So I don't I don't believe I'm sorry to say that I don't believe in that education. It just doesn't work. You need to, you need to put you know, better barriers and and do things properly.

08:49

Who and I think you bring up a good point you we have this just human nature, this human tendencies to say, You mean, I want something, let me just open it up. And that's just natural. The other thing that I see that exists is the fact that as we journey down this road, we, you know, we're gonna get exposed to all this great technology and innovation, great thumbs up the people or the individuals that happened to various type of intent. They're licking their chops. They're saying, Hey, we're, we're learning as you guys learn, and we're learning the bad side. And you got a better you better have your act together.

09:33

Exactly. Exactly. This is this is you know what I'll, you know, like arms a lot I've been I've been in the white, perhaps too many cybersecurity companies in the past 22 years.

09:45

You look 20

09:46

Thank you. Thank you. You're welcome. Anyhow, but but but the real value proposition that RMS is giving to the market is really simple. I mean, do you know what do you have? Do you think it's important to know what do you Have? Of course it is and then do it in the simple manner enough to show the value from the next minute when you block in the collector into a customer network that really that really, you know, it's really cool for average sales guy like myself, so. So,

10:18

you know, you touched upon something and I want to expand a little bit, I think real I think the use cases that exist out there have to incorporate simplicity. If they do not if they it could, it could solve whatever problem but if it's difficult for, you know, me yep. Then if I shy away from it. So I think that that's an incredible statement that that doesn't need to be glossed with making it simple. Exactly. Look,

10:48

for instance, the same products, I mean, how many cm vendors, they're out there, they are very cool. And they do the compliance the thing really well. But what you know, unfortunately, a lot of times, I mean, if you don't have enough resources, and you name your company, who was tells that I have enough resources, there is none. So so so some of these very large projects, becomes headaches, and we'll never get you know, finished. Because they bring more complexity into the, into the value chain.

11:21

That's huge. That's huge. And whether whether it's good, bad or whatever, I know I'm lazy. I know that there is a necessity to do things, right. But if you can do things, right and remove, I don't want more headaches. Right? And so that's the reality of and I love that, that approach. Now. Where do you see it going? What? Put a little future hat on here? What do you see it go?

11:52

Well, you know, IoT, and internet of things. I mean, imagine the buddy buddy, Elon Musk, what he's doing what he's good is there is there is somebody that is I don't know if it translates to English, but who reads the future. And that there is there's a claim that says that was it 2035 445 I can't recall, anyhow, that you know, humans can't be driving cars anymore. So so everything will be connecting. So this connectivity, and the EOD connect Internet of Things will go boosting. So so so therefore, I see a very bright future for armies, because, you know, there will be more and more connected devices.

12:39

I don't think you can gloss over that. I think that as you come to an event like this, then you start talking to other trailblazing innovators that that exist here. It just opens up more use cases, which then opens up more conversations around cybersecurity. And it just goes on and on. I don't see it ending anytime soon. And it and again, we're here, get engaged, you gotta get on,

13:04

we are here and we want to be connected. And we want to be more connected in the future. So cyber is the thing. And the security is the other thing and knowing what you have, it's the third thing. So

13:16

there it is the trifecta of bumper stickers.

13:19

Exactly. All right.

13:21

How do people get a hold of you? How do they get ahold of

13:26

you? Ah, okay, we have a we had a stand together with the CrowdStrike folks, you know, this American company for HDR, which is like, you know, huge. So, so obviously, we've done our emailing and stuff and that, you know, I put meetings, but you know, people are walking and that they see army sacrifice, like in the in the booth. So, I fight. Let's talk cybersecurity

13:49

rescue. Thank you very much for just real talk. Once again, listeners, we are broadcasting from IoT solutions, World Congress industry IoT Consortium is a sponsor as well. If you want to come to Barcelona, come to Barcelona when this event happens, and you just going to get the most out of your trip. So anyway, thank you for being on industrial talk and talking about yes, cybersecurity listeners. I'm all right. Once again, we're gonna be back with another great conversation from this incredible event shortly. So stay tuned. You're listening to the industrial talk, Podcast Network. All right. Once again, thank you very much for joining industrial talk again. Here's the deal. You need to be in the digital transformation game. If you want a business that is resilient, you need to begin to embrace that innovation. But more importantly, once you embrace all that innovation, you need to be able to secure it and know that you're protected. And that's where RMS that's where fescue and team RMS bring a great solution to the table because, quite frankly, you need to secure it. So anyway, I'll have all the contact information for fescue out on industrial talk.com. So don't come to me and say you can't get a hold of it because he's out there and ready to talk. All right. Thank you to IoT solutions World Congress, great event, put that on your calendar. I think they're going to have it at the end of January of next year. So put that on your calendar, as well as the industry IoT consortium, fantastic. organization get engaged because we got to be about education. We got to be about collaboration, we got to be about innovation. Those are organizations that embody that we're gonna have another great conversation shortly so stay tuned, we will be right back.

The post Vesku Turtia with Armis appeared first on Industrial Talk.

On this week's Industrial Talk we're onsite at DistribuTech 22 and talking to Sabine Erlinghagen, CEO Grid Software with Siemens  about “Grid Modernization and Powerful Solutions “.  Get the answers to your “Utility Grid” questions along with Sabine's unique insight on the “How” on this Industrial Talk interview!

Finally, get your exclusive free access to the Industrial Academy and a series on “Why You Need To Podcast” for Greater Success in 2022. All links designed for keeping you current in this rapidly changing Industrial Market. Learn! Grow! Enjoy!

SABINE ERLINGHAGEN'S CONTACT INFORMATION:

Personal LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/serlinghagen/

Company LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/siemens/

Company Website: https://www.siemens.com/global/en.html

PODCAST VIDEO:

THE STRATEGIC REASON “WHY YOU NEED TO PODCAST”:

OTHER GREAT INDUSTRIAL RESOURCES:

NEOM:  https://www.neom.com/en-us

Hitachi Vantara: https://www.hitachivantara.com/en-us/home.html

Industrial Marketing Solutions:  https://industrialtalk.com/industrial-marketing/

Industrial Academy: https://industrialtalk.com/industrial-academy/

Industrial Dojo: https://industrialtalk.com/industrial_dojo/

We the 15: https://www.wethe15.org/

YOUR INDUSTRIAL DIGITAL TOOLBOX:

LifterLMS: Get One Month Free for $1 – https://lifterlms.com/

Active Campaign: Active Campaign Link

Social Jukebox: https://www.socialjukebox.com/

Industrial Academy (One Month Free Access And One Free License For Future Industrial Leader):

Business Beatitude the Book

Do you desire a more joy-filled, deeply-enduring sense of accomplishment and success? Live your business the way you want to live with the BUSINESS BEATITUDES…The Bridge connecting sacrifice to success. YOU NEED THE BUSINESS BEATITUDES!

TAP INTO YOUR INDUSTRIAL SOUL, RESERVE YOUR COPY NOW! BE BOLD. BE BRAVE. DARE GREATLY AND CHANGE THE WORLD. GET THE BUSINESS BEATITUDES!

Reserve My Copy and My 25% Discount

PODCAST TRANSCRIPT:

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

grid operators, conversation, sabine, industrial, utility, software, people, grid, industry, consumers, absolutely, world, point, charging, solution, ev, logistics, talk, challenges, collaborate

00:04

Welcome to the industrial talk podcast with Scott Mackenzie. Scott is a passionate industry professional dedicated to transferring cutting edge industry focused innovations and trends while highlighting the men and women who keep the world moving. So put on your hard hat, grab your work boots, and let's get Hey, once

00:22

again, welcome to industrial talk, thank you very much for joining the number one industrial related podcast in the universe that celebrates you and I'm pointing right at you, you industry hero from around the world, you are bold, you are brave, you're daring greatly. You collaborate, you solve problems, you innovate. I think I've pretty much named them all off, and you're making my life and the lives of many from around the world a better place. Thank you very much. All right. Sabine, is in the hot seat, the company is seated. She is the CEO of grid solutions there. And I just have to give you a heads up. We were on site at distributech. And so this is the interview that happened there. Let's get back. Yeah, see this, this platform? I'm telling ya. It's an ever expanding industrial ecosystem of problem solvers and leaders? How about that, put that in your bank? All right. Again, I want to make sure that you understand this is a series. And this is a series that we were very fortunate to be on site at distributech. And it was a great, great event. And if you're in the utility space, or energy space, or digital transformation space, this is a this is an event that you need to put on your calendar for next year. There's a lot to see a lot of collaboration, a lot of people are just, you know, they're, it's, it's a really exciting time. If you're in the utility world, boo. There's a lot of big thinking going on there. Before we get into that interview, we are brought to you industrial Talk is brought to you by capital logistics, and IoT world now capital logistics i i love the conversation that is around supply chain. And you know, as well as I do, that you need a trusted resource company, that person that can help you with your logistics challenges. If it's big, no big deal. If it's not no big deal, Cap logistics, have you covered, go to cap logistics.com Find out more you will not be disappointed in. And I've had the great honor of working with IoT world. And they never disappoint you go on to IoT dash world.com. And they put together some great content. Because we're all about learning. We're all about growing, we're all about educating. And as I'm telling you right now, the way the industry is working or going it is fast, and you need to keep current. And you need to listen to people like like Sabine, who have just the fingers on the pulse of what's taking place, go out to IoT Dash World. Find out more again, great company, great people, all right, on site. This is this was a great extravaganza. And so my background is in utilities. I was a transmission lineman, many of you know that I was, I dealt with a lot of renewables anyway. I was a kid in a candy store. And then when somebody likes a beam comes up, and I get the opportunity to be able to talk to her about the challenges that are happening within the grid like we take it for granted as consumers, we just sort of take it for granted that when I come into a room, I flip a lightbulb that's on and everything's fine. I don't think beyond that. Well, I do just because I was in the utility industry. However, we have some really unique opportunities and challenges that companies like Siemens, and Sabine and her team are really addressing, and really trying to find that solution. That really, in essence, we don't know anything about it, right? We're just consumers. But it's an exciting time. Now you're gonna hear some noise. It's going to be a little noisy back there because we're right on site on the floor, and just having a great conversation about what's happening with Siemens. So enjoy the conversation because I certainly did. I used to be it's been great to be able to run you down. Lucien, who's standing right in front of me. He's the one that has been burning all the calories. Try to find you. Not me.

04:31

It's been busy times and a lot of great conversations here anti tech. So yeah,

04:35

so you had a good conference. Conference? Absolutely. This is your first time here.

04:41

It is. It is I just counted. i It's my 10th Inlet, which is the European equivalent. It's my first tech. Can you believe that? No.

04:49

Well, this is my first time to you know, my background in utilities. It's like a kid in a candy store here because there was a company out there that had a I pulled top switcher and I said, Are you kidding me? Let me go look at it. And I'm touching it. And I'm going, Wow, that's fantastic. stupid stuff. Amazing. All right, so you're here, Siemens is here, got a great presents got a great solution. Talk to us a little bit about that product launch that you mentioned ever. So briefly on May 5, talk to us.

05:20

Absolutely. And it's actually not only a product launch, we reveal our strategy and an entire suite of products. We call that the grid software suite. And that goes from planning to operations and maintenance of grids. And the Tweak to it really is that we think it from A to Z. So plan to operate, maintain.

05:45

What was the sort of that? You know, genesis of that conversation? Because you're one of the challenges that I see here is, I need if I was if I was a utility, if I was just whatever, I'm looking for a trusted resource, a person, something that I know that I need to do this, I need to venture into this new, Brave New World, but I need somebody to be able to sort of bring us through, was that part of the thinking behind it and saying, hey, somebody needs to be getting it. We need we need it all the way through?

06:19

Absolutely, I think what we realized is that, it is a very, very tough challenges that utilities and especially distribution and transmission companies are facing, because that transformation is nothing that anybody has ever seen before. So the that challenge, we feel that by and large, the industry is leaving our customers a little bit too much alone. So we said, we got to embrace the point of view of our customers.

06:51

I gotta interrupt, who's a customer in that conversation.

06:54

And the customer in that conversation? Is any grid operator?

06:57

Got it? Got it go continue. I was struggling. I'm a customer. But I'm not a grid operator.

07:02

Yeah, no. Thanks for asking. So for grid operators, I think we're as an industry not yet doing a good enough job of helping grid operators to maneuver through that transition, which is an exponential growth case of Drs. So facing that as exponential growth, I think the human brain can cope with exalted curves, right? I mean, we've seen that in COVID, you can just lose time, because if you lose time, it's already too late. Yes. So the same situation is the one that we're facing with what the grids need to cope with. And here we go. I mean, we are thinking silos, we're thinking point solutions. Here, you have a planning app, here you have an operations, and here you have that, and then we leave it to the grid operator to stitch that together. And that's really hard work. Because it's overlapping data is not flowing properly. It's hard to connect. And so that's, that's a problem we are solving for them.

08:08

You've touched on a number of points. And I think that I have to be honest, we have to talk about here on industrial talk, you know, modernization of the grid, but you're the first person that actually said, Hey, there's the customer, there's this human component, these are the, the grid operators, the the ISOs, whatever you might have. And they're the ones that have to sort of make it work because we consumer wants to flip on the light. There it is, it works. And we don't want to have the interruptions. And we're pretty binary when it comes to that, like good.

08:46

And we want to have an EV charging, we want to have a solar, we have one, battery storage, we want to have an energy community, we want to know how much we consume what we can contribute to climate, like mitigating climate change. Yeah. And

09:02

my ear bleeds when I have these conversation, because my background is sort of old school. And it was sort of that centralized generation. That's an easy model. And the utilities are very good at that. Because it's been doing it for 100 years, Siemens has been a part of that. It's just that's what it is. So I have generation of transmission. I have substations I have distribution, and so on and so forth. Now we're talking system operators, having to take solar panels, battery, EVs, and be a part of that whole mix, and then be able to do that. And that's a technology conversation to

09:39

mean Did you know it's 7x the growth of the quantity 20 37x that's exponential?

09:47

No. But that's, that's frightening to

09:50

it totally is and I mean, the transmission system operators already have a challenge because it takes that to distribution. I mean, connecting those DVRs and admitting them planning for it getting the flexibility, getting the inertia, right?

10:07

These are really sophisticated conversations. And if you have any appreciation for the love that we as consumers are, we take it for granted that our power is our power. We don't really mean if I'm a customer, I don't think about. I don't think about that. I'm very simplistic, but there is. No, you're absolutely right. It should be invisible. It should be just business as usual. The risk I see is that if we don't get this, right, if we don't, you know, partner with companies like Siemens, to make it right. If we do it wrong, the consumer sort of doesn't like that.

10:54

I mean, you will have to care, then. I mean, that's like going back to the middle age where you get get to know at which point in time you can switch something on. And I mean, middle aged, wasn't switching something on but

11:04

but if you were at that spot on the point, it is, but then we start talking about I look at it, there's a there's a there's a messaging component to it, right? Because there's a lot of incredible things that your company, people in your company others are doing that is just sort of like the unsung heroes. They're having these collaborative conversations. And it's, and they're discussing,

11:33

I would say it's the grid operators are the unsung heroes. I mean, it is really perfect. It's not us.

11:41

Well, I gotta admit, I can appreciate the pragmatic approach, because the grid operators are going to always say, hold it, I still gotta deliver power. And it's got to be reliable, and I can't just incur a bunch of costs. So it's got to be, you know, reasonable and cost. And it's got to be done safely. Right? I got to do that. Because if I don't do that, then I fail. So it's good. But are you finding that the necessity is to strive to collaborate with these, these grid operators and bring them in and say, We're going down that road?

12:18

Absolutely. And I mean, if you close the doors, I mean, grid operators will admit that they're actually not following through with connection requests of key hours. So this is slowing down the energy transition. And that the partnership is about helping to accelerate the energy transition, helping to make it easy helping to be fast and nimble to adapt, or oh, there's EVs coming up here, charging poets coming up here, more solar introduced here, or there's a kind of a big car park with a charging being built there. So God to be much more flexible than we had been in the past. And if you translate that to the technology world, then software has got to be the solution. Because software, yes, things. It does help you to operate grids closer to them limits mean, so far, we have physical limits, where you have this buffer of portion in

13:14

there. Yes, that's right. And overbuilt. Over built.

13:17

Yeah. Because you got to be reliable. Yeah. But I mean, there was somebody in a utility A while ago, who told me like, oh, oh, this is so we can kind of reduce that buffer and capacity. And then a colleague of yours said, like, look, we used to fly planes with four engines in the past. Now we fly them with tools. Right, right. We're still feeling safe. And that software, it's like, the instrumentation, the precision, the transparency about that we are still good enough to fly. And that's what we need to bring to power grids. It's the software that gives you the transparency of how close are you statically and dynamically to your limits? How much more can the power grid take and investing in software's? There's so much better return on the investment than just adding capacity and copper and bigger transport? That's right, right. It's so much faster. So getting the software right, for me is the key to facilitate and accelerating that energy transition integrates.

14:30

How do you have these conversations with the you know, the system operator over here and a system operator in this service territory over there? And each one has a different story. They're in a different place in this journey? I think there's a recognition that, yes, it's going to happen. I hear it. I understand. I talked to other colleagues, it's going to do it. How do we take it across the board like and have some sort of consistent messaging right there and saying, Okay, do this

14:59

and Think you're absolutely right, everybody starts from a different position. So not only the grid topology is different, the D ER or EB charging, status is different. But also the IT and OT topology of every one is totally different. So the art is to. That's what agility is about. Like when we talk about agility, it's about being able to make small steps, make them fast, and iterate. So it's, that's why our software suite is modular. Modularity enables you to go Agile, and to not replace, and total ADMS and derms. In one goal, if your project, please don't risk. And I mean, we've been doing that over the years. But the recipe is, how can I go live was one thing. Next thing,

15:56

I love the incremental approach, it allows the human side, like me, put my, my arms around it, achieve some sort of success, say, I got it. Okay, I'm learning, I'm walking. Now, let's, let's start to scale a little bit, let's talk, let's target this versus that right now. And be able to do it that

16:20

way. The whole I mean, a, it delivers value much faster, because you can do something very fast. So the second thing is, I mean, it's a human transformation, you keep emphasizing. So it's about people with habits of working with a system for so long, now need to change to work with new software. So you want to give those people the chance to get those new habits. So get them touch the software really fast. Get them kind of learned. Like it like we learned something on the smartphone, right? I mean, you you learn it intuitively, instead of five months of training after a five year project, and it's kind of Big Bang, see your it's not how transformations are being done.

17:08

See, you're touching on so many things. I believe that true adoption has to come with simplicity. If if you create friction in this, whatever this journey is, I'm not I'm just naturally going to not want to be a part of it. It's too hard. And you also spoke on that, that cultural, that utility, cultural mindset, that legacy thinking we've done it forever, this is how we've done it, we've perfected this.

17:34

And you know what? It's that's super interesting, because you see, kind of different types of people coming in now. And those conversations are super intriguing. Because I mean, a you have 80 people sitting next to what we would call Ott, right. So they come from different backgrounds. And what we find is, if we discuss our principles and software and how we build our software, how we deploy our software, it actually resonates with both. So it's not the conflict of I win, you win, or I push you out, you push me out. But it's something that serves both needs, and for good reasons. So it's the best of all worlds. Yeah. And it has the advantage of the reliable reliability of OT, but the flexibility of it, and the speed of it.

18:30

See, I think, you know, I point this out, the pandemic did a couple of things. One, we understand the bad stuff, got it bad, bad, bad, bad. But the other thing that I thought was pretty good about the pandemic is that it it quickly identified the necessity for us to collaborate, and to be willing to collaborate and to be insane. I don't have all the answers. I know I need to go down this road. But I don't have it. So I need to collaborate. And that's what you just pointed it out. OT it, that collaboration when when and and that realization that yeah, it just has to happen.

19:07

And then those, those conversations are real fun. I mean, like I can imagine when we bring everybody in the room is like sometimes in the beginning, there's a little bit of the reservation,

19:17

because it never happened before it never happened. And then when people are leaving

19:21

the room, it's like, wow, I mean, like, sometimes we get kind of that those teams afterwards calling their CEOs and said like, yes, this was like, they never experienced that it can actually not be against each other but with it each other and it really to like thinking things entirely new.

19:44

I think it's an exciting time. I really in a positive way. Yes, people are going to skin, their knees and bump their heads and all of that stuff and it's going to happen however, I still think that there's this momentum that's happening. then it is going to happen. And either you participate, either you'll part of the solution, or because of the velocity of this, you're going to be left behind and you don't want to be in that room. You don't we won't. You Oh, that's what you guys do. You do it all the time. I enjoyed this conversation. You know what it was well worth the wait. Thank you. Yes. How do people get a hold of you? Just got to? I mean, if they want to get some more information, where do they go?

20:30

Just ping me on LinkedIn.

20:32

I mean, that's the way to do it. This is

20:34

where it is man, I will have all of Sabines contact information out on industrial talks have been your fantastic. Thank you very much for joining industrial talk. Once again, we are broadcasting from distributech 22. And as you can tell by Sabine it is a, I don't know a collaborative environment that solving problems, excellent, excellent environment, please put this on your bucket list because you will not be disappointed to get to meet people like to be alright. Thank you. Once again, we will be right back.

21:03

You're listening to the industrial talk Podcast Network.

21:11

All right, once again, thank you very much for joining industrial talk, remember, go out to industrial talk.com And you need to connect with somebody and you will not be disappointed. This was an incredible conversation. And, and I mean, there's more there's so much activity happening within the utility, energy space. And it requires people like Sabine team seems to be able to navigate those waters trusted individuals to navigate those waters because it's important stuff. So go out to industrial talk.com. Remember, we were on site distributech 22. And we're going to have some more incredible conversations coming to you from this event. It again, put it on your bucket list, you will not be disappointed. Join us. We are creating this ecosystem, expanding ecosystem of leaders like you. So please reach out to me go to industrial talk.com You will not be disappointed. All right. Be bold, be brave, daring, greatly. Hanging out with people like Sabine team Siemens, be bold, be brave. They are greatly you know what you're going to do? Change the world. We're going to have another great conversation shortly. So stay tuned.

The post Sabine Erlinghagen: CEO Grid Software with Siemens appeared first on Industrial Talk.

On this week's Industrial Talk we're talking to Rahul Saxena and Nitin Das, Co-Founders of AI Dash about “Satellites 101, Today's Impact and Future Benefits”.  Get the answers to your “Satellite” questions along with Rahul and Nitins's unique insight on the “How” on this Industrial Talk interview!

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Company LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/aidash/

Company Website: https://www.aidash.com/

RAHUL SAXENA'S CONTACT INFORMATION:

Personal LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/saxenarahul1/

Company LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/aidash/

Company Website: https://www.aidash.com/

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PODCAST TRANSCRIPT:

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

satellite, ai, listeners, utility, succeed, conversation, rahul, wildfire, called, industrial, bands, technology, talking, images, innovations, solving, dash, capture, launched, vegetation management

00:04

Welcome to the industrial talk podcast with Scott Mackenzie. Scott is a passionate industry professional dedicated to transferring cutting edge industry focused innovations and trends while highlighting the men and women who would keep the world moving. So put on your hard hat, grab your work boots,

00:21

and let's get right once again, welcome to industrial talk the number one industrial related podcast in the universe that celebrates you, the industry professionals, the companies that get it done. You are bold, you are brave, you dare greatly. Absolutely. And you are changing lives. You're solving problems. You're changing the world. How can we argue about that? Also, this is sort of unique. So take a note of this. This will also be rebroadcast on a new podcast called satellite superheroes. Now we're going to be identifying how satellites, the technology and satellites will benefit industry as a whole. It is exciting, it is absolutely amazing innovation. All right, we've got in the hot seat, speaking of satellites, Nitin Das, and Rahul Saxena with AI Dash. And we're gonna just start talking about that satellite 101. Because I need to know that all right, let's get cracking.

01:25

They're doing so many things with satellite that and I don't even know that the technology is mad, just mad. And AI Dash is leading the way, definitely on how that is really impacting industry as a whole. So it's a big game, big deal. But before we get into that, I want to make sure that we've been talking a lot about are you getting the most out of dot, dot, dot, you're getting the most out of your engagements getting the most out, I'm all about marketing, you just just got to know about that. And I think marketing as a whole is really important to your sales, right? It makes sense, right? There goes hand in hand. And I think marketing drives the sales organizations, the sales activity, and really just sales is a confirmation of of what's been talked about in marketing. That's just me, we can expand upon that. But I have been really sort of talking about, Hey, are you getting the most out of you got to ask those questions, especially today getting the most out of whatever it is fill in the blank. The other thing is that I want to be able to just sort of begin sharing of how I sort of look at markets and how I help clients succeed. One, you find that target, who are they 50, just this just let's keep it manageable, not a not a scattergun approach of let's say, 30 or 15,000. That's a tough one, I don't know how to, I don't know how to filter those out. But let's just say we identify and we do our research, and we identify 5050 is manageable, and then that 50, we identify the why we want to connect with them why this is an important contact, why this is strategic for the success of our company, figure that out. And then from there, be able to create that plan of attack that how to help them, whoever those targets succeed. If you truly have a passion to work with these companies, these individuals, you've got to help them succeed. Does that happen right off the bat? No, you're half to create the relationships. But at the heart, right here at the heart, you want to help them succeed. Because if they're happy, and they are successful, everybody's happy. And everybody succeeds. And that is really the goal. So when you start to identify those, those prospects that are important and strategic to your business, and answer the why they are, then you develop that strategy that helps them succeed, whatever that might be, due to, you know, hey, I was thinking about you, here it is, or what I do is like, you got to get on the podcast, you got to elevate that voice. You've got to get that message out there. You got to tell that story because it impacts and helps people succeed. That's how I roll so get the most out of target your prospects understand that why whittle it down? Right? Get? You know, let's just be honest here. In your scatter gun, 15 30,000, whatever, list, there is a small portion that are truly meaningful and strategic to your business. Let's just, why don't we just cut right to the chase, identify that all the tools are out there to make that happen? Why waste your time? Sure. You can keep hammering this stuff out there and hopefully somebody comes to the website and hopefully something. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Let's be very strategic on who we connect with and help them succeed. Just That's how I grew a business took it public. That's how I took another company and sold it is just, I wanted to truly solve problems for them to help them succeed. All right. Now, again, you heard me allude to it. This is satellite superheroes, which is a new podcast, and it's all part of the industrial talk network, where we're going to be able to, and where we are highlighting incredible professionals, incredible companies that are delivering innovations in their specific space and does real talk. Yeah, I can be pretty high level. But the reality is that we need to have this conversation in satellites. We do, we need to begin tapping in to these individuals that understand the impact the positive impact of what is taking place in the world of satellites, from an industrial perspective, from an environmental perspective, from you know, in, in this case, we're gonna be talking vege management's perspective, it is powerful, it is transformative, and it is going to change the way we do business going forward. And the reality is, we need this businesses, if you really want to have that business that is resilient. If you want to really have that business that

06:17

knows what to do and when to do it. And be able to deploy your capital in the right way. You need innovations, like what we're going to be talking about from AI Dash is satellite is huge, and it's only getting better. wait to hear what is taking place. I'm telling you right now, in the world of satellite, and the reason why this particular conversation is so interesting. First, it's a launch to it is from my perspective, that sort of satellite one conversation I I don't know anything, I know they go up in a rocket and they get out there and they get into the right orbit and they do things. But the reality is, is that it's mad innovation, and these are incredible solutions. Alright, let's get on to it. Nitin and Rahul AI Dash, they are co founders of that particular company. And I'm just telling you, we're gonna be talking about satellites, satellite 101. How how satellites are positively impacting the way vegetation management happens and other things. So really enjoy this conversation. All right, welcome to industrial talk. We have Nitin Das, and Rahul. Okay, a set Saxena. Can I do it?

07:35

Yeah, that's fine. That will do.

07:37

Alright listeners in your face. I got the names right. All right. We are talking AI Dash we are talking about satellites. We're talking about utilities. We're talking about how the use of satellite technology AI is is going to significantly if not now significantly improve vegetation manage within the utility space and as an old crotchety crusty, journeymen utility lineman. I love this topic. So I will be geeking out listeners because well, it's an important topic to have. And I think it's going to be just absolutely transformative when it comes to managing vegetation within the utility space. I like it. It's a cool topic. All right, before we get into that, Nitin, for the listeners out there, give us a little 411 a little background on who you are, and why you're such an incredible professional, and then I'll throw it to you Rahu.

08:33

Okay, so hi, everyone. I'm Nathan. So I'm one of the co founder and chief AI officer at the AI Dash. So here, in addition, basically taking care of all the research and development over AI ml solutions, around 18 plus years of experience with a computer science background. And for the last many years, I'm mostly into AI ml technology, and building solutions around that.

09:01

It's, I have a number of conversations with ai, ai technology, machine learning, simulations, data and all of that stuff. And this is just, this is a fascinating, and you're right at the cutting edge, which is very cool of how you're deploying that AI platform technology in the world of satellites, which is it benefits us tonight. I'm a big fan of that. Rahul, give us a little background on who you are.

09:32

Yeah, hi everyone. This is Rahul am Co-Founder and CTO at AI Dash. So around about 20 years of experience. Some of them was work around building enterprise security software at RSA Security. So did a lot of I mean, right from design development to management around building the software's for large enterprises, fortune 500 enterprises, a bit of startup experience on brambly on the b2c space. So mix of you know entrepreneurship and technical roles. So at AI Dash I look at, you know, building all these different cool applications based on the I mean the cool stuff which Nathan is doing and the AI side and building the platform around that.

10:19

Say Allah listeners, this is going to be a great conversation, as I alluded to just because we've got two incredible professionals with mad skills in the world of technology. And and what makes it exciting for me, outside of the fact I love the utility space, the power space, the energy space, is that I think there's a tremendous transformation that is going to have to happen within the utility world. And I think that it's wonderful that you guys are leading that that charge now. Many of the listeners, I am going to be candid with you many of the listeners know of satellites, no of, you know, yeah, hey, I've got my dish, and I guess I'm getting, you know, whatever the, but there's a lot more to it. If if you could give us Rahu, some sort of that historical perspective of satellites, would be it sort of lay that foundation, and then we're going to expand from there.

11:18

Sure, sure. So the first artificial satellite, or you know, the era of remote sensing began with this satellite called Sputnik one, which was launched has, you know, as early as 1957. So it's been what around 65 years since the first remote sensing satellite was launched. So that was the first satellite which could complete the orbit of Earth every 96 minutes, and can transmit signals which can be received by Earth, right. That's where the remote sensing error kind of began. Back almost 65 years back over a period of time, you know, this space has really evolved. So it started with, let's say, a single sensor, which was more optical, and you can just see, like, you know, the camera image, what you see for your normal camera, eventually, from, let's say, 60s to 80s, it started getting into multispectral, which started capturing more bands. And met them is an expert that can deep dive more into, you know, what those bands are, from there, we got into radio images, thermal images over next two years. And I think, for last couple of decades, the journey has been, rather than having very large satellites, to what they call nano satellites, or smaller satellites, which are very small, and rather than, you know, launching a very large satellite, which is very costly and takes a lot of time, you can actually have, you know, a very small dimension satellite, which you can, you can launch multiple of them, have a constellation of them. So that's where the world has evolved. So just starting from, you know, these funds,

12:54

I'm writing this stuff down, and I'm going to nano satellites, and a cluster I'm all about that is incredible. I didn't know, and it was interesting, back to Sputnik. And I read about it and all that stuff. Really the the premise behind Sputnik as a result of just a satellite is to be able to say it's transmitting PPP, whatever it is, and we're receiving. So we've just proved that we can do up here and and receive whatever that signal and that is, that is a sort of a leap forward in the advancement of technology. I've got to ask, and this is a two unit and how many satellites are being launched every year? Right. And then Then, can you explain for the listeners and and Rahul mentioned it bands? I don't know. Explain a little bit of that. Thanks.

13:56

Sure. Sure, definitely. So, as we have seen the natural progression of the satellite. So the these days 1000 new satellites launched every year. And I would like to say basically the different types of satellites basic like started from our observation, then terrestrial multispectral satellite SAR hyperspectral in multi sensor satellites are there. So in the multi spectral, basically, there are multiple bands having different frequencies and different wavelengths. So those are called basically the red, green, blue, and I our red edge, and SW IR, that is shortwave infrared bands. And combination of these bands can be used for solving different kinds of problems. So that that is basically the multispectral part. There are the different kinds of satellites called the thermal satellites. Basically they capture the thermal signature of any object on the arc. So that is the thermal sink thermal satellite, hypersonic hyperspectral satellites are basically having more than 200 Plus continuous bands, and they basically will open up a new era for basically solving different kinds of problems which which can be solved through multispectral satellite. And there is another kind of satellite called SAR that is a synthetic aperture at synthetic apertures satellite. If you if you look at optical satellites, though there is a limitation they basically can't see through, they can't see in the night and can't see through the cloud. But there are synthetic aperture radar satellite, those are called Radio satellites, they can see they can penetrate through the cloud. And they can also see objects in the night as well. So these are the different kinds of satellites with the with the corresponding bands

15:37

of the satellites. And you bring up a good point because you just said, Hey, satellite could be this satellite could be that this is we could see this, we could see whatever it's it's, it's amazing technology of how does how to if I'm a satellite person, how do I manage that 1000? You know, new satellite inventory, given? What I have here, right? What what is being launched? That's SD unit? And how did how do they make that determination? Or are all satellites multi capable?

16:14

No, so all the satellites are not multi capable. So there are basically multiple sensors installed on some on on a single satellite. But for example, let's say thermoset light. So there is a single sensor, there's a thermal sensor, and a SAR satellite is a single SAR sensor. So yeah, so based on based on the use case, based on all other things, basically, they basically installed multiple sensor or multiple camera on a single satellite.

16:39

And it's just gonna get more and more, right. It's just, it's just, and the technology is just going to continue to advance and it just like anything else, it's definitely not static. It's a very dynamic type of environment. Now let's talk a little bit about that. Me old crotchety, crusty journeyman lineman, I'm a, you know, I'm all about that human inspection, I got in a truck, and I went down, I looked at that tower, and I climbed that tower. And then I looked at that insulator, oh, that insulator, and that was very labor intensive, right. And so then here comes drones, drones were like, all right here, now I can see it and take great pictures. And then, of course, LiDAR, and so on. explain to the listeners of the difference between, let's say, the drone LIDAR human approach versus the satellite. why that is? So I think that's transformative. Can. Rahul, could you sort of help that? Argument? Why the question.

17:45

Yeah. Yeah, sure. So I think the biggest difference there is in terms of sheer scale, which satellite can do the shed satellite, like I mentioned, I mean, starting from Sputnik era, which was covering the whole earth in 96 minutes. So there's a there's a massive coverage, which is happening pretty rapidly, right. So none of the options you mentioned, like LiDAR, whether it is a drone, a drone, or a helicopter, or obviously, for human beings, it's not possible to scale at that rapid speed. So So for example, a satellite can capture very large areas, like up to, let's say, 1000 square kilometers, which is just not possible in you know, drones, or, I mean, from a human angle. So that's, that's one of the major differences. So if you are looking at so obviously, I mean, if you keep going a bit far from the subject, the resolution might drop a bit. But it is more than compensated by the sheer scale by which you know, you can get this imagery captured. Apart from that, since satellite imagery, you know, keeps taking the image and keep sending it to Earth, over a period of time you get archives or archives of these imagery, right? So if I'm looking at an area, I just, I'm not just getting an image as of today, right? Whether it is human or drone, or LiDAR, you can just capture what is there today, right? Unless you have you have been doing this for a very long time. In satellite, I can actually go go to the past and make a future prediction. Right, I can see the pattern and make a prediction based on that.

19:16

See, and I like that. And listeners, that means that that I have a picture. Let's say I have a picture a week ago, I have a picture today I have a picture a month ago. And and and Nitin correct me if I'm wrong, through the AI capability, be able to determine because the key here is, and I would imagine, correct me is that, hey, I want to I'm a utility. I have vegetation management, that is a cost to me, and I want to deploy my money efficiently. Don't go over here, go over there and be able to communicate and deliver that type of insights. Because you have that those multi pictures vision of from above, is that correct?

20:01

Yeah, so basically, you take pictures at multiple point of time, and you can basically estimate the change between these two images. And that case that change can be translated into, into a problem statement, something like that.

20:17

Yeah. Yeah, as, as I, when I was doing patrol work, the the reality is this, this, if there was a rain and there was a eucalyptus, I knew that that was going to grow. And so I'd have to get in the truck and get my, you know, and go out there and cut or waste my time and go out there and say, Oh, I still have clearance from whatever the power line CIO or whatever it might be. It was, it is an Prowl, it is the ability to be able to truly deploy. It's my money. This is, you know, dollars and cents my maintenance dollars in vegetation management to the right, and can I see the type of tree it is like, the, the type of tree, here's eucalyptus, here's, oh, here's this and be able to also have that determination. Is that a possibility? So you can see, I can, like, I geek out on this stuff, because I have that same problem. Can I do that?

21:18

Yeah, sure. I think. Sorry. Yeah. Go ahead.

21:23

I just give you a high level, and then maybe you can add to it. So yeah, I think there are two things here. So from this perspective, I think, yeah, I mean, it's a problem, which, obviously, with his algorithms he can solve. The other angle here is it also depends upon what you are, what you need from this solution. Right? So if when satellite imagery, I can go back to the past, while I'm looking at is whether it's a eucalyptus tree, whether it is some other tree, what's the growth rate? What's the clearance, right? So if, if I'm inspecting manually, so if it is a eucalyptus tree, I understand the growth rate, and we can make up cycle 10 prediction based on that. But if I am, you know, just having this data independent of the specie of the tree, I can make a prediction independent of the specie of the tree. Right. So, so knowing the specie of free becomes slightly less important. But yeah, to your point, I think you can you can add more around, you know, especially if

22:12

I was iterating. The same thing, basically. So with the current set of images, you can basically get the current state of the vegetation, but you you, and with basically the historical images, you can estimate the growth rate of each of the tree. Without knowing this issue, we don't require the species because we we estimated the growth rate of each and every tree within a given area of interest.

22:38

Do you in to this as to unit and do you also in your AI? Solution? Incorporate weather?

22:49

Yes, weather is an important factor, which basically weather soil all these basically, variables are, are the part of a fader a model.

23:00

It then it dovetails nicely with the next question, and this is to unit and it's there is a lot of chatter, a lot of discussion around disaster management we see. Right, it just happens. It's, it's gonna, sadly, it will happen again this year, and we're going to have that same conversation and it's just going to with the the AI satellite solution. How does that help with that? How does it minimize and be able to sort of elevate that disaster conversation?

23:39

Sure, definitely. So I'll basically give you an example of wildfire how how the satellite can be used in the wildfire. So there are three components in wildfire, the precondition before the wildfire, during the wildfire and the post after after the wildfire happens. So before the wildfire the satellite data is used to identify the wildfire risk risk zones, which can be used for hardening the infrastructures and on so if you already know in advance, what all areas are important for wildfire perspective, low mid high, categorize those in globey time, then utilities can take appropriate actions before time to for hardening the grid, and all those things during the wildfire because there's a natural calamity which can't be avoided. So if the wildfire is happening to satellite data can be used for basically estimating the direction in the speed of the wildfire. And then the utility can take appropriate actions. For example, the evac evacuation on time, so if they know the direction isn't all and post wildfires, basically, the post wildfire damage can be estimated through satellite data, which can be used for restoration and many other purposes.

24:49

I'm having a hard time poking holes in your value proposition for utilities. I mean, it makes sense. So if I'm a utility I've had this conversation with utilities is that they're having, they're having challenges less like everybody else. And the challenge is, is I got workforce management. You know, how do I find the right reputable tree? Company to trim? And then why do I do? They're, they're struggling. And and this is a huge budget component to their business just is it's it's a. And if I, if I was a utility company, I would definitely take note, because I think that this, this is a fad, and it's only gonna get better. Right? The it's just let me ask you this, let me ask you this. So with that, with that statement, it's only going to get better. Where do we see it going? Rahul?

25:48

Sure. So I believe, I think one way is to look at is extrapolate the history discussion we had at the beginning of this conversation. So it's going to continue the same way, we had till nano satellites, we are talking about actually pico satellites, which can be even smaller, so more satellites and more coverage, maybe miss use cases, we are also looking at, as more of more of this image becomes available, I mean, there'll be some commercial satellites, there will be some satellites launched by government. So more data becomes available, more kind of models are possible, as we go along, the AI becomes better. And then as we are going forward, and especially this becomes important for things like you know, monitoring for let's say, a wildfire, or a storm and those kind of things. So, the time travel between you know, the signal coming from space to Earth, a lot of work happening on that side as well right. So, how to reduce that time. So, the moment a satellite captures, can Are there ways the signal can be captured very quickly on Earth, so that some action can be taken. So those would be other areas, which we feel there will be more advances.

26:56

I like again, I keep on stubbing my toe on the Nano idea. I can't, I just have to ask it. Now, what's a nano sat How big is a nano satellite, I mean, just physically.

27:13

So basically, let me let me just give you a complete figure so that you will basically have an understanding of the progression in the size of the satellites. So initial, when the Sputnik or the initial phases of satellite, those satellites, basically the the weight of those satellites were around 100 to 500 kg, a single satellite, then there came the micro satellites, the weight got reduced to 5200 kg, then there came on nanosatellites, the weight still got reduced to less than 10 kg. And there's there's a new set of satellites called the PICO satellites, the weight is around 100 grams to one kg. So that is the new set of satellites.

27:53

Come on, listeners, you got to admit that that's pretty cool. That's a great conversation. When I was a boy, I, I was a big fan of Estus rockets. So I would always shoot off these rockets right. Now, I guess I can get as this rocket and put one of those dog on satellites, if it was powerful enough breaking the Earth at the pole. Oh, that is so that's exciting. And you know what else and I sort of dovetail everybody's talking about all the stuff that's in, in, in space right now. But those, those really small satellites address that. I mean, it's it's not a big clunky thing out there, right? It's, they really do they address that. And from a cost perspective, I mean, I can throw a bunch of them in there and and zip it out there and and and so, I get greater bang for the buck for that whatever that that you know, rocket

28:48

and I would like to add one more thing. So along with the basically the change in the size of the satellite, there is also an increase in the resolution. So basically, initially, the resolution was around 5200 meters, the and now the resolution is basically tents. I mean 30 centimeter, 20 centimeter and 50 centimeters, very high resolution satellites.

29:13

Again, add to Rose. I mean, it's gonna it's gonna continue to be better. It's just, it's just gonna continue. I don't know if I'm scared or, or excited or whatever, but that's a that's a heck of a conversation. All right, we're gonna have to wrap it up outside because I would I'd love to continue to talk about it. However, Rahul, how does somebody get a hold of you? Like email what but, you know, they they said, Hey, Rahul spoke to my heart about satellites. How do they get ahold of you?

29:49

Yeah, he will work. I'm on LinkedIn. So So in any of these medium, I'm available.

29:55

Very good and to you knit and how did they get ahold of you too as well?

30:00

The same medium, which basically the whole mentioned.

30:03

I gotta tell you, gents, this was a great conversation I really enjoyed. And I know that we just really just scratched the surface on what you guys are doing at AI Dash and what, what's taking place in how you are. I hate to say it but passionate about helping utilities and their vegetation management, leveraging the technology leveraging satellite hack, have a conversation. Well done to you both. I enjoyed that conversation. Thanks. All right, listeners, you're saying to yourself, Scott, I do want to go, just go out to industrial talk.com You go out to industrial talk.com You will have both all of the contact information, AI Dash everything that you need to pursue additional information from these two individuals. I gotta tell you, I really enjoyed it. All right, listeners, we're gonna wrap it up on the other side. So stay tuned, do not go away.

30:53

You're listening to the industrial talk Podcast Network.

31:03

About that conversation at is absolutely amazing enjoyed it. With Nitin and Rahul with AI Dash. The future is bright. When it comes to industrial solutions, you got to check out AI Dash go to AI Dash.com. Also, you need to go and support satellite superheroes. And the reason you need to do that is because we're going to constantly begin to break down all of the great technology that is impacting in a positive way. industry as a whole and you need to be engaged, you need to take on that learning requirement because you need to, you need to learn, you need to collaborate and you're going to innovate. That's the reality of the situation. Alright, if you're looking also at me, in my I'm in my jacket for the first time in a long time, had a meeting and I'm still wearing the jacket. So check it off. It's all good. All right, again, let's be a ecosystem that is truly helpful in solving problems and allowing other companies succeed. All right, we're gonna have another great conversation round a corner. People will be brave daring greatly, and you're gonna change the world.

The post Nitin Das and Rahul Saxena with AiDash appeared first on Industrial Talk.

In this week's Industrial Talk Podcast we're talking to Michael Bates, General Manager, Energy with Intel, Corporation and Phillip Carey, Energy Consulting Expert about “The Electric Utility Digital Transformation Journey”. Get the answers to your “Utility Digital Transformation” questions along with Michael and Phillip's unique insight on the “How” on this Industrial Talk interview!

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PHILLIP CAREY'S CONTACT INFORMATION:

Personal LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/philcarey/

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PODCAST TRANSCRIPT:

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

utility, phil, Intel Corporation, grid, people, power, talking, system, world, energy, companies, consumer, stranded assets, customers, relay, generation, happen, industrial, industry, Southern California Edison

00:04

Welcome to the industrial talk podcast with Scott MacKenzie. Scott is a passionate industry professional dedicated to transferring cutting edge industry focused innovations and trends while highlighting the men and women who keep the world moving. So put on your hard hat,

00:19

grab your work boots,

00:21

and let's get All right.

00:21

Welcome to the industrial talk podcast absolute, again, honor that you have joined this podcast, this platform that celebrates industry heroes such as yourself, it is a no legacy thinking zone, do not even come to me and say I've got some legacy thinking. Because everybody within industry is bold, brave, daring, greatly innovative, solving problems, and changing lives and changing the world as we speak. Thank you very much for what you do. You're making my life better. And that's really very special. All right, we've got to on this particular podcast, we have a gentleman by the name of Michael Bates, General Manager, energy at Intel Corporation, mad skills. We have another gentleman by the name of Philip Carey, he's a consultant has his own consulting firm, had many, many years within Southern California Edison, and we're talking about the utility digital transformation. It's an important topic, and it must be discussed, let's get cracking. All right, we have a it's a bit long, because they have a lot to say, it's an important topic, a couple of things that you can do. One, you can listen to part of it, come back, listen to it again, because it's important. And two, or two or both, that doesn't really matter with me. You can go out to industrial talk.com, use the player, speed it up, boom, you're good to go. But these two individuals are absolutely exceptional, sees what has to take place within the utility space. And it is really for me being an industrial guy. And being a utility guy. I really geeked out on it, because it was exceptionally a great conversation. So I hope you enjoy it. All right, let's take care of some business real quick. I want you to get your calendar out. And this is the IoT solutions World Congress in conjunction with the industrial internet Consortium. This is an event taking place October 5 through the seventh 2021 in there talking about IoT AI, edge. You name it digital twin. I like this one quantum computing. How about that there is no stopping the future. It's absolutely spectacular. All right, put it down October 5 through the seventh, it's in beautiful downtown Barcelona, Spain, let's get our lives back in gear. That's what I want. I want I want ever this next normal to include travel. That's what I like. And boy, the people of Spain, this organization IoT solutions, World Congress organization, as well as the industrial internet consortium put on a fabulous, fabulous show. Been there a couple of times, broadcasted live from there, enjoyed every minute of it. Next one, put it on your calendar. This is in Cleveland, Ohio, Cleveland, Ohio, this is November 9 through the 11th. It's the manufacturing and technology show. And if you've never been to Cleveland, put that on your bucket list because it is a beautiful place with great people. And this event will not disappoint whatsoever. That's the manufacturing and technology show November 9, through the 11th. Put that on your calendar. A must attend event Oh, I will be broadcasting from there too. And connecting with all of the incredible individuals that are just innovative, that are bold, are brave. They're daring greatly. And you know what they don't do? They don't have any legacy thinking, boom, love it. Alright, let's get on with the interview. So this one of the the topics in one of the things that I was always sort of wrestling with, specifically to the utility space, is the fact that how does utility given all of this the renewable stuff that's taking place with all of the real innovative stuff that's being put onto the grid? How do they manage and how will they manage going forward, and it is a digital transformation, compensation and digital transformation solution. And these two individuals, Michael Bates, and Philip carry, bring the dog gun insights and wisdom. So enjoy the conversation. Welcome, and I appreciate you guys wanted to talk a little bit about the electric utility digital transformation journey, and it's a journey. Welcome, guys. How you guys doing?

04:49

Doing well? Thank you.

04:51

Alright,

04:52

got it. You know, you got to do it. Nobody knows you. So you got to just say Hey, Mike, give us a little background on who you are because they haven't gotten out to your LinkedIn stat card right

05:02

now. Okay, well, I haven't seen it either. But I'm glad to know that it looks good. And thanks for letting me go first. You bet us and thanks for inviting me enjoying conversation today. Cool, have a little background with Phil so we can share some of our common experiences. But my role at Intel is to look for opportunities to apply our technology and convene our ecosystem of partners to address big industry challenges in our energy verticals. Our energy in our case includes oil and gas power utilities, the new energy service companies that are getting into the renewable energy services, for example, the EB charging area as well, as well as digital oilfield smart AG, and water. So we look across different areas of energy and where they impacted the grid is there

05:55

like that smart AG, I had an opportunity to, I can't remember it was in Oklahoma someplace. And the the innovation that's being applied to AG, it's impressive. I just think it's cool. Everything's cool.

06:12

Let's talk about it. If you want, there's a couple of interesting projects going on in here. We might have

06:15

to just sort of dovetail and just go off on a tangent, Phil. Thank you.

06:21

Yeah, so my my backgrounds a little different. I was formerly at Southern California Edison for 22 years, in it the entire time, but started out in IT operations. And then at one point, found myself in a architecture group, and then transferred into a group called it smart grid engineering, where we were an IT group that was embedded with the OT group in transmission and distribution, the advanced technologies group. That's where I learned a whole lot about the business. And while I was there, develop this common substation platform. And I retired at the end of 2019. And now I'm off on my own as a consultant. And I've done some work with Intel and with Dell Technologies. And here I am.

07:22

It's funny. I think the internet says when you retire, you become a consultant. I think so. There's nothing else you can do it. It says,

07:31

Why the internet and my wife keeps saying I thought you were tired? Well,

07:37

you don't want to get out of game now. Just kidding.

07:40

No, you're right. You're right on the money on that one there. Because this time is very, very exciting. Very interesting. And I don't have the answers. But people like you, Mike and Phil, are in the game. And you're you're talking about this. And so we're focusing in on utilities. And typically, utilities tend to be sort of legacy thinking, this is why we're here, this is the end and it hasn't really changed for a long time, whatever that long time. might give us a little sort of, no, no, no, I'm gonna take it to Phil, because he was with Southern California Edison, not to say that you're not that important or my, you'll get your guide, okay. It's just sort of give us a little sort of that utility thinking, not today, but in the past sort of that utility thought process.

08:33

So the, you know, the current utility networks were designed, you know, we're using 100 year old technology, essentially, it was designed to generate electricity, and to deliver it to customers. And the utilities job was to get that electricity in one direction from the generator to the customer, and to balance load with generation. And as long as load and generation stayed balance, and electricity was flowing through the system, everybody was happy.

09:10

It's true.

09:13

Such a simple explanation, but it's like when I come into a room and I flip that switch me consumer or me, manufacturer or me, whatever that power be, but better to be delivered at the right cycles, rival to all of the stuff it has to write. And and that's the way utilities have been developed. It's just that's how that's what it is. And rightly so. But what's changing Mike?

09:46

Well, one thing is changing is, you know, the model is changing. And, you know, to Phil's point that utilities, the past and still current were built around reliability, keep the lights on so the talent They acquired the training they gave the policy and regulation to support that model, it's all been ingrained for, like you said, since the really much the inception of electric delivery, one way flow of power from centralized generation coal plants, nuclear plants, then through step down to consumption at the far edge, that's been the model and the bill, then the technology has been in place to support that model of keep the lights on at all costs. And I think Phil might agreed he's much more into the technology side than I am, but it feels like a siloed stack of solutions have been built around this grid reliability model. And now, the grid, the delivery model is really turning upside down. It's not it's changing from that one might flow from Central generation to to a flow from hundreds and 1000s of millions of points of generation on the opposite side of the grid, the other side of the substation, so it wasn't built to take on that two way flow equipment, maintenance costs go up because equipment wasn't designed for it, there's lost opportunity cost, because you're not connecting these new loads in a way under the kind of common substation platform to fill required. So it's a major shift of focus from the the generation side, down to the consumer side, consumer own asset side. And now you're asking a company that's been built to keep the lights on to now become a customer focused company. Look, you know, if the opportunity in the future is around services, you got to remake and re engineer a company to make that pivot. And it's hard for some companies to make that pivot, especially in the utility space.

11:49

Yeah, and, and you know, an example of that. And it's not this, not the utility industry, but IBM used to be the biggest hardware manufacturer in the world. And today, there are software and services company, they hardly make any hardware. So this is where the utilities need to go. And they need to look at how their business model is changing. And accommodate that.

12:14

Yeah, if you don't mind, God, I was just gonna add to that, I think the other thing I've heard the other comparison, I've heard Phil, and I think all of us on the call around to remember the telecommunications restructuring where the companies like the southwest and Bill's of the world who built all that infrastructure to enable what we see today, were not the companies that really profited from it, it was Facebook, Google, Amazon, they use all that infrastructure that was built and created services around it. And the infrastructure providers haven't even caught up since then, I think that's one of the inflection points we're at today is who's going to own that piece going forward.

12:51

So in a sort of simplified in my head, is that utilities were built in a way where I generate power, I transmit that power, I stick it into a distribution substation, and I just keep on bringing it down, bringing it down to the consumer level today, and that's fine. That's right, I see that flow. But today is like, okay, we have some that flow that go that way, right. But then on the other side of that, that transformer or that bus is is also generation that's happening on that side. So what so now we're saying it's got to flow the other way, and it's got to flow into this magical system. And it's not supposed to suppose just happen. It's like everything just sort of lines up. But that's not the case. That's not the case at all. So So there's a couple of things that I see taking place. First off, and I think it was you, Mike? Yeah, it was probably you. The toothpaste is out of the tooth, the toothpaste is out of the tube, it's out. So so we're heading down this road, it's happening, whether we like it or not, it's happening. So as a utility, let's say I have my utility hat on, I've got to do something about it. What problems is this new sort of dynamic grid had a causing on my system, Phil.

14:21

So one of the large problems is load doesn't necessarily match the generation system specifically out on some of the feeder circuits. So to combat this utility, really needs the capability to be able to reconfigure the feeder circuits to better match the load. Another issue is in the past, if I had a fault on one of those distribution circuits, I could tell by measuring the power flow through the relay And when it got out of specification, I knew there was something wrong, the system knew there's something wrong. And that relay would send a trip signal to the to the circuit breaker. Well, now that I have generation on both sides of that relay, how do I detect the fault? point? Yeah. So that's where some of this digital controls come in, so that we can measure and, you know, know how to deal with two way flow of energy now.

15:33

So here's the funny and here's a, here's a story from my past. So when I was with Southern California Edison, I knew, you know, I'd go into that relay room, I have that smell, and distribution voltage, I can always see, I could always see the lights, right, the lights, they'll, they'll dim. And I'll say, okay, that's what they'll dim. Okay, that's too. And I know that the, the testing the relays physically test the line. So if it, if there's a there's an, an interruption, they'll Test, test, test, and then lockout three times that was like the, the policy at a time, right. And my dad, as a former lineman, when he would watch the lights. And as a kid, I'm going to hex you're probably right, and you'll see it one, and it'll count two, and then he has three. And then right off the bat, he get a call. But but that that's old time thinking that's that's old way now with like you just said, Phil, you've got generation on both sides. How does that that physical, a really know what's going on? Mike? What other problems are utilities dealing with? In this particular? Whatever we call it? I don't even know. Is there a term that we can call this particular world that we live in from utilities perspective?

17:05

The general term, I've heard his energy transition, but that that includes a lot of different things. But that's the term I'm just gonna run with that one.

17:12

Yeah. All right.

17:15

So other other problems that they face. And again, this some of this is not some of this is technology, although I would argue the technology exists to do the kind of things that Phil and I are talking about. It just needs, there needs to be investment in alignment, mostly through right policy and regulation that allows for the type of investments. And I think we're getting there. I think there's other other market drivers. So you asked the question before, Arianna asked it. You were saying that, that this was an evolution. And you and I talked about this before I was at a neighbor's a distributech dinner or something? And someone asked the question, this was two years ago, or maybe three years ago. It's like everybody in the room that thinks that this is an evolution, raise your hand. And literally three quarters or more of the room raised their hand, no, this is an evolution. And it was mostly utilities, the understanding that this was an evolving process, it was under their control or to kind of evolve it as they drive it. But I think what's changed now and then the rest of the 10% maybe said revolution, I think if you did the same poll today, it might be the opposite. Because I think there's market drivers outside of the utilities control that really is forcing the change. One is a focus around sustainability, and impacts of climate change. That cannot be ignored by the utility. So mandates by states companies company's, again, in areas where particularly in areas where there's been energy resiliency issues like in Texas, around the storm in California around the wildflower wild fires, where companies are looking for alternative sources to roll their own energy systems. So as more and more of those, if that pain point keeps bringing more and more companies and customers to roll their own energy, that's less, that's more of a problem on the other side of the grid that Phil's talking about. So corporate sustainability driving a lot. And I also think we're gonna start hearing more how financial markets are looking at carbon based. So companies with high carbon footprint carbon based assets, which will move companies again away from that one way flow of centralized power, which is dirtier, in general, to more decentralized power on the edge again, exasperating the problem. And then finally, EBS. You know, you One could argue we're at the inflection point now. But if you follow this industry at all the companies that have declared the end of combustion engines, the policy regular the support, from, you know, Europe and US around the administration, so think those market drivers and again, I started going so long here, but those market drivers are really pushing them in ways that are forcing them into this This type of a platform that Phil's talking about to be able to enable more services and and become a player in this new opportunity. So

20:09

great. No, you know what, it's a little bit more than that, because it's the regulators as well. Yeah, you look at California's remote, renewable portfolio standard, going to 100% renewables, I think it's by 2050. And Washington state where I am at now, just in the last week or so, passed a carbon tax resolution in the house. So, you know, those kinds of standards are coming here. They're coming everywhere. So,

20:42

okay, so

20:43

let me just you brought up a lot of good points there. Mike one, I think you're absolutely right. 11 illusion versus revolution. And I think we're at that point, I think we're at that revolution, I just think that there's too many things taking place in the market today. I think the drivers of sustainability, climate change, market, ie V's and the regulator, those are challenging conversations to have one of the things that and I'll throw this out real quick, because it just popped into my head. If If carbon based assets are going to be, you know, viewed poorly, how do you even how do you even structure a financial value proposition around a traditional generate? I think it's just going to by virtue of that, nobody's going to be able to wrap it with any type of capital. That'd be tough going forward, because you still have embedded assets that are still having some sort of rate of return

21:41

and still am being amortized. Right. Yeah. So

21:45

utilities don't like stranded assets. Yeah.

21:49

Geez, Phil, I haven't heard that one in a long time stranded assets. I forgot about that one. Okay, listeners, I have a utility background and stranded assets was a word that was battered stranded assets get shut the front door. Okay. So, so now we've we've painted the picture. And there's a lot of dynamics, it's very fluid out there. And before industrial talk, we've had number of conversations that evolve revolve around the term industry for Dotto, we've talked about the edge, the cloud, this that everything around with that. But what component that was really missing was, was that utility, how does the utility fit? I get it in the manufacturing world? I get it. I get it in the oil and gas, I see it I see what they can do. Utilities because of their short of the way they look and who what they are. This is a this is a difficult question. Now with that said, what has to change? Phil? What has to change in their mindset? Because they're not going away? Without being song without being dragged? But it's happening? What has to change?

22:59

Yeah. And you know what? The technology of this is the easy part. Right? Michael mentioned, some of that technology is already around, it's usable. New technology is coming on board all the time. The problem is more with people than it is with technology. A lot of utilities don't even realize yet that they need this digital transformation. It hasn't quite hit them yet. I've been in conversations with many utilities. And you know, some of them are working on it. Some of them say now, we're not. We're not even thinking of that yet. But they need to be. There's a couple of forces at play here. First of all, if I'm a utility operator, you know, I have to meet my safety and safety numbers. Otherwise, my regulators will be really upset with me and could have some financial penalties. So if I operated my grid, and it was stable last week, and this is the way I did it, that's the way I want to keep doing it because it's a known commodity. And, you know, nobody can fault me for doing something new that didn't quite work out.

24:25

It's true. Um,

24:27

another issue is what I'm hearing now called the silver tsunami.

24:32

Yeah, I've heard that too. And it's not just is it utility? What they they've been talking about the silver tsunami for years and years and years. You know what they do? They retire, they retire, you fill and then they bring you in as a consultant.

24:48

That's what they do.

24:49

That's the

24:52

first time I've heard it.

24:53

Yeah. So I guess what I'm saying there is that many of the workers on the OT side of the house. So the transmission and distribution in the case of utilities are people that have been at that utility for 20 3040 years. And change is a hard thing. Yeah, you try to move one of these guys cheese, and they're gonna let you know that they want their cheese where it is. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Um, so the people, part of this is the hard part, getting people to accept the new technology, and also learn how to use it.

25:35

So it's silver tsunami, is that massive retirement that people like Phil, were referring to, they've been there for 30 4020 whatever years, right? And then all of a sudden, hey, I can retire. And then all that knowledge, all that intellect event, utility stuff just goes right out the door, and onto the lake. Where the end and and what do you do as a utility? And I remember I was working with another utility in Arizona, and and they were having the same thing and these planners, so you can you can walk into the planning department, and you can say, Yep, retirement, retirement, retirement retirement. And, and they know where all of the switches are, they know where all of the funny, funky things that are out on their system that they got to be aware of, and they just let the crew know, right out, whatever all of the stuff that's out there, gone, gone. And, to this day, we still don't have a real solution of saying, okay, we'll let you go. But we've got to go inside your head and pull out that information. And maybe until can get to that probe and just stick it on an endo system

26:42

now neuro link, thinking about it. So interesting stuff out there. A quick side story on that. I live in Texas, I think I told you that. And we had this winter storm that shut everything down. And I remember, I'm not going to mention the city, but one of the city water systems went down because it couldn't get the emergency backup system back up. Because the owner's manual was lost and all the knowledge about how to turn it on and connect it. So it sat there for two days until someone anyway it's kind of a symptom of the way you're just talking about it. So somebody just raised up their hand.

27:15

Hey, Scott, remember how to do it. So Scott raises his hand, he goes, Hey, can you turn on this water? Certainly can but

27:23

bring him back as a consultant. Last year,

27:27

that's right.

27:28

I have a number in mind. And it's on my napkin right here. And I'll sled across the table. And you let me know. But it's it's the truth. It is such and that whole Texas thing. That whole Texas and and for some of the listeners out there, they had a real winter storm in Texas. Now Texas is a unique system all to its own. It's called ERCOT. Right? Did I get that? Right? And so it's sort of this little unique utility Island in this all other, you know, utility type of grid. And they were they were they were challenged.

28:04

So you really highlighted the problem statement that we're talking about. The biggest, biggest feedback on during that time was there were areas in the archived grid where the downtown areas were totally lit up buildings were running full blast, even though no one could get to that building. Everyone was at home, while you know, nearby neighborhoods were having rolling blackouts, or in some cases, you know, days long blackouts. And the response was, well, we couldn't turn those switches off because they're on circuits where critical facilities are but that is not true. That gets to Phil's point. That technology exists today to do scalpel like precision, like control of those loads to turn those places that are in demand that aren't needed to areas that are without it again, it does. I think it takes a willingness. And I think a different approach to policy as well. And also willingness to invest to put that technology in place to do the things like that. Again, it's just it's not a, it just doesn't feel like rocket science to me. Yeah. But

29:09

here's, here's the thing that I have a customer and I don't want it in my backyard. Sure. I'm all about sustainability. But I'm all about having that nice, you know, turn on that light whip into my computer, have that nice clean power, just sort of making sure that things don't, you know, fry. So is this new, brave new world? Something that is really consumer centric, or is it something that it's going to cause me Yanks

29:44

either one comfort film.

29:48

I don't know that it's so much consumer centric, you know, back in my SC days. You know, we did the AMI, the automated metering infrastructure project, and we put Smart Meters out everywhere. And we made, you know, 15 minute meter reads and hourly reads available to the customers. And guess what? Most of them didn't care. They wanted their bill at the end of the month, they wanted the power to be on when they went and flip the light switch. But most of them really didn't care to go and look and see what their energy usage was at three o'clock in the morning on Wednesday. So I'm not sure that it's so much consumer driven, as it is sustainability and regulator driven.

30:37

That's interesting. You got it. Yeah, I was like,

30:40

Yeah, I would. I mean, I would counter that, I think there is an opportunity. And again, I think utilities have a great place to be the provider of these services, to engage customers. In a way I call it almost the democratization of energy. So that that power produced end or not consumed, in partnership with utility allows the consumer or some people call these prosumers producers and consumers of energy to participate in a market in the same way other load nodes can participate in a market. And I think that will facilitate more, or one, it's going to facilitate resiliency into the grid, because the grid is if we can optimize and orchestrate those many, many different loads. But I know it's yet to be proven. And I agree with Phil on the energy management data. I didn't think that was very sticky, either. And some of the projects I've seen, but I do think if there is a way to, to make it really easy for consumers to participate in an energy exchange, you'll drive higher adoption of these technologies.

31:49

has to be super easy,

31:52

breezy. And I still like it the most part, the average consumer wants their energy clean, green and cheap.

32:01

Which is right would be difficult, right? Yeah. It's like, got it clean, green and cheap. But the Something's got to give in that particular. So we've we've, we've created this reality the utility grid is there's a lot of mechanics going on out there. There's a lot of embedded assets, there's a lot of just old stuff out there, too. It's like, there's old stuff out there. And and some of its buried and some of its in these, you know, the relay sheds, and there's all these assets out there. How do we then begin to transition? Taking that reality taking the resistance of utilities to a certain extent, some are a little bit more willing than others in nacionales? It's a it's definitely a cavalcade of feelings. Where do we start? Does the technology exist to be able to transition to this night? This this whatever this digital age that we want to go to? Phil?

33:04

For the most part, yes, some of the advanced stuff, not yet. But we're really close to it. And like I said before, I think the technology is the easy part. So yeah, here's a little anecdote from me. You know, back when I started working in the smart grid engineering group, we were working on a on a large project. And my job was to assist the OT guys, in doing some of the computer control. I was the infrastructure guy. And I saw the way that some of these things were were happening. And being an it being a data center architect for as long as I was. You know, we had been doing things for years and years and years that were pretty reliable. And I went to one of the engineers, and I said, why are you doing it this way? We can. I mean, there's this system, and we can, you know, make these changes, and it will make your life a whole lot easier. And he didn't want to hear it. That's not the way we do it. So pretty.

34:14

Pretty common. Unfortunately,

34:16

I had a unique capability in that I had essentially my own lab there. And I had access to their labs as well. And I decided that, you know, I've tried to explain how I think this technology can work. They're not getting it. So I need to build it and show them. This is how it works. This is what it can do. So I did that in the lab and showed them and over time and it did take time I started getting questions about the technology. Well can it do this? Can't do that. What happens if we try this? Come on Phil, that that's,

34:56

that's a, that's a long tail type of solution. I've just got to say There we go. Okay, I'll show you. I'll create it. And then and then when you do create it, it's like, well, I'm interested in this little point here when you got this whole solution, right? And it's like, Hey, you got a kid. It's like, man,

35:16

but it was good because they thought of things that I didn't think of. Okay, right, because I was an IT guy. Right? So they would come to me, Well, can I can? Can it do XYZ? I'm like, Yeah, I think I can make it do that. So that led me to more innovation, innovation. And, and frankly, that technology, the common substation platform, basically a compute system virtualized that's built on industrial hardware that can sit out in a substation and operate, that allows the engineers to think about ways to do things that they could not do in the past. And it you know, it frees up, you know, out of the box thinking, and I hate that term out of the box, but I'll go ahead and use

36:08

it back back to those cliches, right? You just got to roll with it, because I don't know, I don't know of any other, it's just got to roll with it. Go ahead, Mike.

36:15

I was just gonna say it also unlocks innovation and in giving the utility, the ability to securely federate that data out to the developer world to look for opportunities to provide new services to customers, because there's data there, once you consolidate under the platform that Phil was just talking about, unlocks all kinds of key, some that utility is going to see right away and, and develop on their own, but many others, if they can figure out a way to federate it out. Many others will come from the from, from the from the app development world,

36:49

I gotta interrupt real quick a federated out, what do you mean by that?

36:53

So I mean, so federated, like in channels, so data sent autonomously for certain purposes and for specific up for specific applications. federated out, so in a secure way. So that, and again, I'm getting an error, or I'm touching errors I'm not that comfortable with. Okay, I

37:15

just didn't understand. It sounds good.

37:17

Oh, it's sharing the data in a way to to certain audiences that I think that value, and it's really secure exchange, does

37:24

that feel? Yeah, cuz if you look at it today, meter data is over here. And voltage measurement data is over here. And outage data is over here. And in most cases, that data never meets. But if you could combine that data into something useful, and then run some analytics against it, a good example is that most utilities inventory of assets is dismal at best.

37:55

And they're done that absolutely understand exactly what you're saying. I know that was there.

38:01

Yeah. And I think, for the most part, if you look at the field, utility does not really know what transformer My house is connected to. Yeah, they may, but they may not. They know it's one of these in this area, because the houses in this area. So there was a program that I saw, where the utility was able to take the voltage measurement data from the smart meters and run analytics against it, and determine which group of houses were connected to the same transformer. That's just a small example of when.

38:48

Yeah, and that's good for, that's good for customers, right? That's good. If I'm out in the field, and I got a power outage, right? And if I had that data, I would know that that Transformers feeding this neighborhood or this group of houses. And it allows me to think a little bit different. I can switch over here, do this, like it changes my look at the grid. If I'm out in the field and say, switch there, do this. Oh, that's, that's okay. We got it.

39:15

That's fine. For the most part, smart meter data is transforming the way that repairs are handled. Right? Because the old way is, first of all, the utility didn't really know that there was an outage until somebody called and said My power's out. And then when that somebody called and said the power's out. They would send a patrolman out to go and follow the lines and see if they can find where the problem is. Yeah, we're now you get outage reports from smart meters if your utility has smart meters, and they can pretty much pinpoint where the trouble is.

39:51

Yeah. I like that one. One other interesting project that's related. I've been part of is an idea to deploy, I'll call it autonomous mobile batteries. So batteries charged up and outside of the community in areas where solar can be. So this would be in an area. This has been particularly in in a very dense city environment where you can't put a lot of solar. And so if you would put the solar farms be on the outskirts of town, and mobile batteries would be there charging and discharging out into the network where the power is needed. I mean, it would be large size batteries, it could even be smaller size, where they're dual purpose could be even transportation. So picking people so it's a mobile battery first and then. But that type of technology that Phil's talking about, would be able to map out that autonomously move those energy resources around in a way that makes it look like baseload, which is what we're trying to replace. You don't until you make it look like baseload and act like baseload. Yeah, be hard to get to those mandates.

40:59

But that's, that's part of the problem, though, with the way that people think about change, right? Lots of utilities have automation, automation to where a operator pushes a button, and XYZ happens. You start talking about autonomous operation that scares the heck out of people. Because right now, just about every operation that happens on the grid is initiated by a human, human in the loop. So you know, the outage management system, the energy management system, it comes up with a solution, and then waits for the operator to say, execute and go.

41:41

Yeah, it is still down to that switch. Yeah. You're spot on now. And it's Yeah, but but okay. I'm bullish on the future. I'm bullish on the ability for smart people to deal or to address these opportunities, these challenges within, and I believe, I believe, from a consumer perspective, either we will be unaware, which is good. That's not aware. My path. Okay, I'll give you an analogy. So this is what happened. It's those micro interruptions that when I was alignment, would drive customers crazy, like a blip. And the reason for that normally, before an analog clock, no big deal, don't they don't care. It's still three o'clock. But when we came to the digital clocks, and you have that little interruption, then everything in the house or blink clock, high voltage power outage, and and that's when everybody said, Well, I don't like this, what's going on with my power? So if we can make it to the point where people are, they don't see it. Right, then I think we're good. But but I think we can answer these questions. Mike, where do you see it sort of going? I mean, what do you put on your future hat? Let's, let's say what if dream? What do you think it's going?

43:07

Pay? Well?

43:08

Yeah, so first of all, it starts with something you asked earlier, which is what do we need to do? And then I think one of these things? Well, the domino, despite the market drivers we talked about, I still think there's a lack of education to consumer level on some of these challenges. So I think I'd say one of the big things we need to invest more on is consumer education. And when I say consumer, I'm talking about every type of consumer, not just residential, multifamily, but also corporations and commercial industrial on, on what this smarter grid to use a term that's over us can deliver in terms of benefits. past that, I think the future will look like a lot of what the lot of what the content delivery world looks like today, the Netflix streaming world where when they first started delivering content, they recognized it, you know, coming from a central server was not going to not cut the deal. I think now as we expand in the ways we've talked about, I think a tiered compute network is going to be what the future looks like where the right amount of compute sits at the right part of the transaction. And there's a platform layer, like what Phil's talking about. I think that orchestrates that. Who wins that role. I think it's still up for grabs. I think the utilities are still in the lead position, in my view, because one, the position they have today, is still pretty sticky through policy and regulation. I also think their brand is still valuable in this area around the new services that create, but also recognize the new market entrants that are coming into this space. There's super ambitious, so companies like shell and some of the big oil and gas companies gas and oil. Yeah, so that's so Who wins that platform play, I think is who the future winners are that. But I do think it's a big platform play that orchestrates this, this new energy system we're about to fill. What do

45:11

you think the future looks like?

45:14

The future is definitely digital. Gone are the days where the grid is stable because of inertia. Meaning that Yeah, most generation is done by a big spinning mass. And that mass wants to keep rolling on when something happens. We're going all inverter base now with wind and solar, which really needs some fast controls, to stabilize the voltage and, you know, keep things up. I think utilities, a lot of them have realized that they need to get there. Some are just beginning the journey. Some are still saying that's not gonna happen. But

46:00

yeah.

46:03

Okay, go right ahead and think that, yeah, so um, it's, you know, it's coming. And we need to educate everybody. The operator,

46:19

yeah. But here's the funny thing. And being in the, in the education, there's one, there's always going to be that percentage, and it's a high percentage, I really don't care. I just, I'm not going to listen, I don't care. I've got to dig this ditch out here. And I'm going to be doing that. But what's interesting, if we truly desire, a sustainable, nimble, you know, a system, the digital solution is the only way that we're going to get there. The physical solution that we have today does not allow for any of that, really, it sort of here, yeah, we'll let you have this little area here, whatever. But to truly transform and create something that is sustainable. It's a digital, it's a digital innovation type of conversation. You won't get there. And I guarantee you, they'll lose that battle.

47:14

And furthermore, Scott, it's a digital control at the edge. Yeah.

47:19

Oh, there you go.

47:20

Some some of these operations that are going to have to happen quickly. Yeah, there's not enough time to send those digital signals back to a central location, have it processed, and then a command sent out to do something. It's interesting.

47:34

Yeah, there's a Functional Safety component to that, too, that you mentioned, Phil, when powers come in the other direction. And there's an outage, you got to know if you're a lineman, what this what this, so the system has to automatically adjust for the safety components of this new system as well, immediately,

47:50

well, and then there's another big one is when you start decentralizing the system, and run these systems over networks, you need to pay a lot, a lot of attention to cybersecurity. That's,

48:07

that's a whole nother conversation you're spot on on that one.

48:10

It is and, and you can, in my opinion, triple the amount of compute power that you need to get this work done, when you lay out lay over the cybersecurity components on top of and so the, you know, the computers that they use today, these families, pretty gutless computers that can get the job done today. They're not going to get the job done when you lay cyber security over the top of it. Yeah. So

48:41

it's doable? are we are we you know, I mean, I'm talking to to the best in the business. Is it doable? Are we gonna get there? Whatever their looks like?

48:52

I think we are.

48:53

Yeah, I think a lot of it's being done. There's demonstrations of this. Again, it's not at scale yet. But yeah, I totally agree with Phil. It's not a technology problem to solve. Technology exist, to assemble the platform to deliver the services that we just described. It's your it's the people for sure. It's also the momentum behind the incumbent legacy system. There's so much investment in it all the way up and down. That it's hard. It's like moving a tuber aircraft carrier with a tugboat. It's just really hard to move it I think that's fucking about that

49:32

now, but it's gonna happen. It is and we're gonna have to wrap this conversation up. We've been going for about 45 minutes however, Mike, how does somebody get ahold of you?

49:43

Michael dot e dot Bates at Intel coms best.

49:46

Excellent. Phil.

49:49

Phil at Carey consulting. services.com is your last

49:54

no you I like your last name is it? Do you know the guy Hey, here's my resume. You two were excellent. This is this is just scratching the surface and I, and I can see additional conversations taking place as a result of this conversation. Because I mean, we haven't even talked about the regulatory component. We haven't talked about any other. I don't even have the answers. And and I like the fact that it does, it just gets down to people. And then once people make, make that decision, saying, Yeah, it's gonna happen, then things do happen. But you're right. Technologies technology. Just is,

50:36

yeah, you know, and and You're so right. When we were working on some of this new technology, we went out to one of the locations where the engineering groups were gentlemen, from the networking group, and myself, we went out to discuss IP addressing schemas with one of the substation engineers. And first of all, we started out with him, not trusting us, because we were from it. But by the end of the conversation, by the end of the conversation, he was ready to throw us out of his office physically. But a year later, he was one of our champions. Yeah. When he finally realized that this was coming, and that there was no way he was stopping it.

51:33

is a cool,

51:34

jump on board, baby are jumping the pool, the water's fine. It's all nice and cool and refreshing. I'm gonna have to do it. Alright. Thank you very much. Okay, listeners, thank you very much for joining the electric utility digital transformation journey. It's a mouthful, but it is what's taking place today. Oh, I forgot to ask you. It's global. we're not the only ones that have to deal with all of this is global maybe. And he says some extent or another, but it's a global challenge that I believe that technology can solve, but it gets up it goes right back to the people. All right. Thank you guys.

52:12

Have a good one.

52:16

You're listening to the industrial talk Podcast Network.

52:24

All right. Big old shout out to Michael Bates, as well as Philip Carey. Both are just top notch professionals in the world of digital transformation for utilities. They're solving big problems. look them up, get out there. You'll have all the information out on industrial talk.com. Again, I want you to make sure that you put this on your calendar is the IoT solution, wrote Congress, as well as with industrial internet Consortium. great people, great organization, great event, that's October 5, through the seventh and beautiful Barcelona and the next one that we want to make sure that you put on your calendar is the manufacturing and technology show. And that is in Cleveland, Ohio, November 9 through the 11th 2021 put the Cleveland trip on your bucket list. You will not be disappointed for great food, great people call for you. Alright, people be bright, daring greatly. That's what industry is all about. Hang out with more bold, brave, Daring Greatly people and he will change the world no legacy thinking here. Ask the question. Why not? What if Enjoy your day.

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