Allan Schurr with Enchanted Rock

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

Enchanted Rock, backup power, natural gas, data centers, grid operator, on-site generation, energy management, vertical integration, microgrid sites, proactive maintenance, nuclear power, distributed energy, utility space, power generation, system operator.

00:00

Scott, welcome to the industrial talk podcast with Scott Mackenzie. Scott is a passionate industry professional dedicated to transferring cutting edge industry focused innovations and trends while highlighting the men and women who keep the world moving. So put on your hard hat, grab your work boots and let's go all right once

00:22

again. Welcome to industrial talk. Thank you very much for joining the number one industrial related podcast in the universe that celebrates you industry professionals all around the world. You're bold, you're brave, you dare greatly, you innovate, you collaborate, you solve problems. You are making the world a much better place. That's why we celebrate you on industrial talk. We're also brought to you by those wonderful people at Siemens, smart infrastructure and grid software. Go out to siemens.com find out more. They are heavily involved in what we're doing here at that distribute tech here at Dallas, big time, they've got a lot of solutions happening over@siemens.com find out more. Speaking of solutions, we got a great guy in the hot seat, Chief Commercial Officer, Allan, sure, sure. Did I get it? You did the double R? Do I extend it a little bit if

01:14

you or roll the R's off your team?

01:18

Yeah. Enchanted Rock is the organization. So let's get cracking with the conversation. All right, there you go. No worn out

01:29

having a good conference. Yep, so far,

01:31

just a bigger how many times you've been here? Oh,

01:35

25 Yeah. No kidding, from the very early days when it was in San Jose, California. No kidding. Used to be called da DSM, yeah, they rebranded,

01:46

luckily mad street cred Helen, because it's huge.

01:50

It's pretty big. It's one of the biggest shows in the utility space. Yes, easily bigger than power Gen,

01:56

yeah, I was at power Gen. I, I was broadcasting there too. And I, I, you know, what's interesting? I thought, you know, given what's taking place within the just the energy space, you would think that that would be big,

02:10

bigger. It's changed a lot over the years, the big turbine manufacturers and others have really done their own things. And so what, what is going on at power Gen is more distributed? Yes, it's exactly batteries, yeah, Gen sets, things like that,

02:23

yeah, yeah, no, you're absolutely spot on. I remember that all right. Before we get into the chit chat, give us a little background on who Allan? No, you're not Allan. You're Allan, right? I'm Allan, yeah, I was just talking to an Allen over there, and I'm telling that guy kind of confused Allan, go for it.

02:41

So I'm Allan, sure. I'm the Chief Commercial Officer at Enchanted Rock. And my background started off working in utilities and merged into what did you do with the utilities? Ah, well, I started working in the power generation department at pg&e, yeah, way back in the day, and quickly moved over to the customer side, where I was working with industrial customers on energy solutions. Did a variety of things, economic development, regulatory activities, and then the deregulation of California hit and got sucked into the new models of power generation, delivery, retail. I went to an unregulated sub of PG and E at the time, pg&e energy services for a couple years, then moved to a software company that was selling industrial software for energy management for large energy users, called Silicon energy. We ended up being acquired by Itron, and I moved from there to IBM, and moved from there to Edison International, and I've been at Enchanted Rock for seven years. So wow, I'm worn out. Yeah, me too. I mean,

03:45

my legs are sore from that journey. Tell us a little bit about Enchanted Rock, given the fact that you've got some mad street cred, I love it, and I guarantee you we can have a lengthy conversation.

03:58

Well, Enchanted Rock does on site generation that provides backup power using a natural gas reciprocating engine in lieu of diesel generators, and we can provide on demand backup as is needed. But we also are market facing with those resources where we'll provide services to the grid, because we can get air permits to run as many hours as we need, really. And then, of late, we've been working on a lot bigger projects with data centers and other industrial customers

04:29

just getting ready. You stole that from my, yeah, from my question about, who are you getting involved with data centers?

04:35

Well, they use a lot of power, and they can't get it. So that's the, that's the dilemma that they're under right now. So

04:41

but, but you still have to they you still have to configure the solution in such a way that you can be back up if they're able to receive their data or data their power requirements from the local utility, right you still have to have that backup capability. You

04:59

still need backup. In case the grid is down. Yeah, a lot of times those backup generators use get get used very rarely, only for testing. So they're a terrific, lazy asset that you can use for other purposes, and it actually makes them more reliable if they get used more. So we'll provide services to the grid operator. That could be the case. So it could be ERCOT, could be PJM, or that means it or bilaterally to the local utility that needs load relief and they're willing to pay to have that dispatch right. And data centers are causing a lot of that stress on the grid. So there's a very elegant solution where data centers, which already bring on site generation, the form of backup power, can now provide for themselves during those periods of grid stress and get an interconnection faster. So it's a true time to power solution.

05:47

How do you take so you have you have data centers, and they're all over the place, and you have the backup, and you're starting to wheel that power to the grid per whatever the system operator is saying, that's right, got it? How does does the system operator know where they need the capacity?

06:11

They know where they need the capacity. They've, in general, been reluctant to contract for customer cited generation to relieve that capacity, because a lot of customer side of generation is diesel that can't be permitted to run except when there's an actual right so it's just been wasted this opportunity. So if you can dispatch that on site generation when the grid needs it, that alleviates some of those pressure points, it might avoid a new transmission upgrade. It could be a replacement for a peaker plant somewhere on the on the

06:45

network. Yeah. How does that work? Let's say I'm a system operator. I have, I have a scenario where I need capacity in this area. I have, I would imagine, as a system operator, I have the knowledge of that available capacity natural gas, not diesel, which I'm not sure if that's a real good solution, diesel,

07:08

08:21

So you're, you're, you're installing capacity around a meg, a meg, or bigger, Meg or bigger. What's your largest unit?

08:30

The largest the we just gain units together. So the unit is the same every time. But we'll have, we have some sites that have over 100 generators at the site,

08:39

each unit of Meg, half a mega, half a meg, and

08:43

you can have as many as you want,

08:47

pretty simply deployed. I

08:49

mean, it's really assembly. It's not heavy construction. They come off the truck, pre tested, they drop onto a raised base that has all the wiring and piping in it, and get connected up. So we're on site for a big project in a matter of a couple three months. Not longer.

09:09

Are you vertically integrated?

09:11

We do the EPC, We do manufacture the generator, we do the O and M, we do the market facing work. We finance it if the customer doesn't want to own it. Yes, vertically integrated, that's the only way to really provide that assurance that it's going to work. When there's an outage, you can't lead to chance some of these handoffs that take

09:29

place, don't you? Just let the capacity, I'm still sort of stumbling on calling that capacity as I'm a system operator. Is it better for your assets to be just running? Let's say I don't have to call I use that as a base load or as opposed to a peaker.

09:53

Yeah, that the there's a role for base load generation in the stack, but we act more as a peaker reserve. Can. Capacity. So when the grid gets stressed, yeah, they're in need of it, and they might dispatch us with an actual run now, or they might do it with a price signal. Says the opportunity run if you'd like, you get paid if you run. So ercots That model, right? It's scarcity pricing. Price changes every five minutes. We watch those prices, and you determine when you could come on for those programs. So we've got a mix of programs. We're, you know, always trying to look for the way to underwrite the cost of the on site generation as much as possible, because that drives the cost of reliability down. Every dollar we get from one pocket is coming out of the it's less that the other pocket has to pay.

10:43

Where do you see it going? I mean, What? What? What's that future hat look like? Because it, I again, it's dynamic out there.

10:53

I think, I think nuclear power is going to be the future 10 years. Is it always 10 years away? Or are we starting to close

11:01

Internet when I was doing line work, it was always 10 years. The attitude

11:05

of the American public is actually pretty supportive of nuclear power. Generationally, younger generations are much more supportive than the ones that were around when Three Mile Island happened,

11:19

yeah, but the technology is, I'm a big fan of nuclear.

11:22

It's very solid. Yeah, happening all over the world. We should take advantage

11:26

of, yeah, and take advantage, but then remove some of the hurdles from a regulatory perspective, because it's

11:33

absolutely odd. But we need solar too. We need batteries. We're going to get a mix of technologies. And there's still a role for dispatchable gas assets that are the the resource of last resort when you really need a fantastic thing. Well, we can turbine. It could be a turbine. We do it with resets. It's a gas based resource where you're tied into a pipe that's got plenty of fuel, and you can run as long as you need to not four hour duration. What about four days? 40 days.

12:00

We can do that. Don't you cycling on and off and up and down? Doesn't that provide unusual, rare to

12:12

your assets? That's what a turbine that might be more wear and tear a recipient loves that. No kidding, it's a recipient is no different than a boat engine or a heavy duty truck engine, and they're cycling on and off, starting many times a day. That's true. So they're fine with that. If they're maintained properly, they'll, they'll last forever. Well, not really forever,

12:35

but I understand quote, unquote, quote, quote, forever, forever.

12:40

Yeah. So it's a new it's a new way of thinking about dispatchable capacity to support the grid. Use customer sided on site generation that's really dispatchable. Provide visibility to the control room operator. They can see our units and their state of readiness. They know, if they push the button, how much load is going to get displaced. And then if there's any left over, export it on the grid, megawatt for megawatt. They'll see.

13:05

When I was with Edison, I was negotiating power purchase agreements and and a part of that was, oh, yeah, here, here, here's a geothermal and where it's a firm contract, nice is as available, that type of thing. The the thought of these smaller um assets, we just never, we never cross it. It was always go big or go home. In a sense, your solar, your your solar plant needs to, you know, take up a, you know, small state. Well,

13:38

14:06

Yeah, it's it from from my perspective, it's the LED lighting. If one goes out, it's still, I can't stare at it.

14:12

14:27

I have to ask the question, don't reach over and slap me on the head. Ai. You guys dabbling in that? Are you seeing some benefits associated with your model, with, you know, analytics well?

14:40

15:07

Yeah, see, and that's, that's a whole nother conversation. Is that, well, how do you manage those assets in a way that you're pulling the data, looking at the insights associated with that data, making tactical decisions and being able, instead of a catastrophic failure. Run to fail, you deploy the necessary maintenance. It's

15:25

one of the advantages of standardizing on a single module generator. Now we have comparable data across all of our sites. If we had lots of different models and sizes, we wouldn't be able to compare it. We might see something, but not know what we're looking at. Yeah, well now we can really

15:40

tease it out of the data, I have to ask the question about location. So the world of these assets in Texas might differ from, you know. Maine, yes, you know, they just are. Do you also normalize that data? If you're you know, you get the question,

16:02

yeah. So what might change would be the environmental conditions, yeah, temperature, humidity, and we would normalize it so that we would look at comparable patterns for the same temperatures. We've got sites from California to the Mid Atlantic and from Chicago down to McAllen, Texas. So we've, we've seen it all. You've

16:20

seen it all, yeah? Allan, how do people get a hold of you?

16:24

Enchanted rock.com or a sure, A, S, C, H, u, r, r at, enchanted rock.com Yeah, I don't LinkedIn. I'm on LinkedIn. You got it? You

16:35

got to have your stat card out there so I can grab the link and then stick it in, uh, industrial talk. All right, you have to do that. You are great. I love that conversation. Thanks. Scott. Well worth the wait. What? All right. His name is Allan. We're gonna have all the contact information for Allan out on industrial talk. So fear not. He's a good one to connect with. At least he has, as you could tell in the beginning, he has mad street cred, utility Street for it. Yeah, we need a beer or two. That'd be great. I'd love that. All right, we're sponsored by Siemens smart infrastructure and grid software. Go out to siemens.com and find out more. You will not be disappointed that they're they're wonderful people. We're broadcasting from distribute tech. It is in Dallas, Texas, and if you're in the world of utilities, transmission, power generation or or all of the above, you need to be at this event. It does not disappoint. You're going to wrap it up on the other side. Stay tuned. We will be right back.

17:35

You're listening to the industrial talk Podcast Network. You

17:45

all right, that was a great conversation. Micro grids. Micro grids. The world in distribution is changing, being led by Allan and team Enchanted Rock. You gotta, you gotta connect with this. Things are happening so rapidly in the world of distribution, utilities, power generation. It is truly it's a renaissance. I keep saying that it's this is an amazing time. You're looking for a profession. Yeah, you need to check that out. You need to connect with Allan and find out more. He's a good man to have on your team. That's for doggone, sure. All right, industrial talk, I say it. You need to tell your story. You need to do it well, and you need to be able to get that message out quickly and effectively. Industrial talk is here for you. Yes, go out to industrial talk. You connect with me. You have a conversation with me, and we talk about how we can amplify your message. Let's let's have a good time. Be bold, be brave. There greatly. Hang out with Allan. Change the world. We're going to have a great conversation shortly.