Tracey Lovejoy with Catalyst Constellations
On this week's Industrial Talk we're talking to Tracey Lovejoy, Co-Founder and Co-CEO with Catalyst Constellations about “What is a Catalyst, being a Catalyst and why this is important to your business”. Get the answers to your “Catalyst” questions along with Tracey's unique insight on the “How” on this Industrial Talk interview!
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PODCAST TRANSCRIPT:
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
catalyst, people, organization, scott, Tracey, world, problem, industrial, industry, shannon, talk, create, change, reality, happening, vision, listener, business, conversation, superpower
On this episode of industrial talk, we are talking catalysts. Are you a catalyst? What is a catalyst? And as an organization, do you need catalysts? That's what we're talking about on this episode. So let's get cracking.
Welcome to the industrial talk podcast with Scott Mackenzie. Scott is a passionate industry professional dedicated to transferring cutting edge industry focused innovations and trends while highlighting the men and women who keep the world moving. So put on your hardhat, grab your work boots, and let's go
Alright, welcome to industrial talk a platform, a warm and fuzzy place for industry heroes such as yourself, because you are bold, you're brave, you dare greatly. We celebrate you on this podcast, because you innovate, you're changing lives, you're making my life better, and therefore you're making the world a better place each and every day. Take that to the bank. All right, in the hot seat. We have a wonderful person by the name of Tracey Lovejoy. That's T R A C E Y right? Don't forget the E. She is co founder and CO CEO at catalyst constellation. And you know we're going to be talking about Yep, catalysts in what that means. And are you a catalyst and you need to get involved because there's an event that's there. They're putting on on the 11th of January, let's get cracking. All right. We're also we're also brought to you by Neil, you're you've heard me talk about Neil. That's neon, that's an E O M go out to neon.com they're creating, how about this for a bold future? Brave, Daring Greatly vision. They're creating the community of the future. They're putting all of this industry for Dotto, the stuff that we talk about on industrial talk each and every day, with some of the best professionals from around the world. They're putting it into action. They're there, they're putting money where their mouth is, and it is an exciting vision. So go out to neoma.com Find out, I'm telling you, man, you're not going to be disappointed. And we're also brought to you by Deloitte, you've heard that name before, especially now, you need to have a consultant that is got your best interest at heart, because these times right now are very challenging, and you need bright minds. And you need visionary guidance to make sure that you survive and that you create a business of resilience. Go out to deloitte.com Find out more you know them. Alright. So
he ever get that update that that? That iPhone update? Yeah, I just just went through it. I have my iPhone, I got my iPad. I've got everything that's AI related, right? And sometimes I don't like the updates. And you're saying yourself, Scott, why don't you like the update? Because it requires me to change. It requires me to do something different. And then I realized that's what we're all about here in industry, we're all about change. We're all about trying to do something a little bit different, more efficient. It's solving problems. And that is just, that's a factor of change, right? We just need to do that. And so I was complaining, because you could tell by the music. Sometimes it gets a little. No, Poppy, I don't know what you would call it. It skips and it's a digital music, right? Digital, but it skips I can't tell you why. But then I get frustrated. But then I realized that change is good. Yep, changes good. So put that in the back. I don't know where I was going with that. But I just decided that I needed to share my my epiphany when it comes to change and the update with the iPhone, because you know, they make it do something different. You've been doing it one way right with your thumb. And then all of a sudden, you have to change the thumb and now it's at the bottom as opposed to the top. And I can't I can't explain why. I don't know what happened in the star chamber. I phone wherever. They changed it. But I like it. I'm gonna roll with it. That's what I'm about also. So if you've heard the podcast, with Tim, Kobe of Eight Inc. And he's talking about return on experience. I'm fascinated by that because I believe he's onto something that is really important. Now you go go go out find Tim Kobe, like Kobe beef. Right? That's, it's out on industrial talk.com. But the reality is, is that there's truth. And I challenge you and I challenge every listener out here. When you start talking about or thinking about an experience is that experience from your customers perspective, positive or negative? indifferent? I don't know, is there a lasting memory? Is there something there that just says, gosh, that was fun. And and in that experience, you can then begin to develop that relationship. Right? So we did the Christmas and holiday thing. We went to Disneyland Disney World, right Disney World. And we did Epcot. And from the point when you enter in, get it going into the park, you're doing it. It's all about the experience. It's all about what you're hearing, what you're seeing what you're smelling? What's your steady, it's just, it's an inundation. Is that a word? Now, I'm inundated with just experienced stuff. And, and none of it stinks. From my perspective, right? None of it is is off putting, right the food's good that the flowers are pretty, right. Everything is a great experience. And I just came to the conclusion that, yeah, I like experience. And and that's why I offer the podcast because I want to encourage you, if you're listening to this, and you're saying to So Scott, I would like to be on the podcast, I encourage you to do that. I'm all about industrial entertainment, we've got to deliver an entertaining product, we've got to deliver something that is is focused on an experience, right? A positive, because you're doing great stuff out there. As I ramble on, this platform is dedicated to you industrial professionals, it is available to you. And I guarantee you, I guarantee that you will have a great experience. That's That's my guarantee. And you will never come off with this podcast say, I didn't have a good time. I'm telling you. You will. Alright. Segue right here. Alright, so I met, I met Shannon Lucas. She's the other co founder with Tracey Lovejoy. And I met her in San Francisco, and
excellent chest on fire delivers just just fun, passionate stuff, right. And in this world today, we need to have that passion. We need to have that that desire to really help companies help people succeed and create businesses that are resilient. We talked about catalysts. And and I'm not going to go into it because Tracey does a great job of explaining what that is. But the reality is, if you if you listen to this podcast, and you're going oh, my gosh, I'm not alone. That's how I feel. I'm not alone. I feel just it's it's a great book. They have a book. Okay, hold on the catalyst guide to well, working well. Okay, catalyst guide to working well move fast break shit burnout. And that's exactly what we're talking about here. And it's exciting. And it's a wonderful conversation. And they they just, well, it's really Tracey, Shannon's another conversation. But Tracey just hits the nail on the head. So let's get cracking because you need to listen to this podcast, you need to listen to the wisdom that comes from Tracey and team. Catalyst constellation. So enjoy the interview. All right, Tracey with an E. Welcome to industrial talk. Thank you very much for joining. How are you doing today?
I'm so happy to be here with you, Scott. Thanks for having me.
Yeah, every time I look at your name, I see that EY as opposed to just why? Yeah, it causes anxiety for me.
Because I answered anything. Yeah, but people do why I eat with the heart. All answered to Teresa, Terry Stacy. You're good.
All right. Love Georgia. Last Name, right. So we're gonna go out into our stat card listener. You go out there Tracey with an 80 ra see why love joy finder. Catalyst. constellations. Is the company. Do not hesitate. Of course. I'm still pending. I'm still looking at my pending my invite.
You're not You're accepted. Oh, wow.
I mean, let me refresh. Yes, I have number one now. I'm afraid to sit there. All right. All right. For the listeners out there. Tracey, give us a little just 411 on who you are,
and who I am. My background was as a researcher, I studied anthropology and ethnographic methods which you and I were talking about a little bit earlier right that fancy fancy word. ethnography is a form of study of watching people kind of do their normal life and making sense of it. It comes out of the roots of anthropology and sociology. And I got kind of a dream job coming in. into high tech doing that, which was crazy right out of graduate school, and they flew me all over the world getting to watch people use their technology and everyday lives. Because as you know, in industry, right, you even showed me a device earlier. So often engineers are so excited about the idea that they have, and not necessarily thinking about the applicability to people's lives. And so a lot of tech companies have continued to, you know, kind of leverage social science to think about what is it that people really need? And then build from that perspective, and you had a conversation recently about design thinking that I got to hear that was,
I liked that. I liked that, because there's a lot of up. I don't I just think that that we need to do more of that now. Yeah, I think I think pre pandemic pre virus, pre whatever that used to be, it seems like it's been a gazillion years ago. But I believe that we were bringing her seat we were lazy, see be game. And I think now I think that disruption is true. I believe that. That's just me. And I think that it's the grave. Yeah, that's right. And I think today, I think you got to bring your A game. And that's understanding people and what does that look like? And that's what are the dynamics about that? And I'm very intrigued with the term catalyst. Yeah. And Shannon, Lucas, co CEO, of catalyst constellation, define catalyst. What is that? What is that?
Yeah, so most of us know, catalysts from our chemistry, high school, right?
out of my car.
So it's the idea that there was, you know, something that you would add that would create a chemical reaction? Yeah, we're not totally pure to that definition. Because when we talk about our in chemistry, a catalyst then changes, right. Whereas what we're talking about is the the catalyst is a human that moves into situations and can really quickly see what's happening here. And how can things be better. And they take action to move that into being they see a vision, and then they move toward it. So most of us have worked with people like this in kind of organizations that we've been in that person that kind of says, Hey, this doesn't seem like the optimal way for us to do a meeting structure. What if we did it like this? Or hey, CEO, that maybe doesn't seem like the most important goal, given the forces that are happening in the globe right. Now? What if we went ahead and did it like this? And so the catalysts among us, are those of us that are constantly scanning the horizon for opportunities. And we have these many visions that come together, and we cannot stop ourselves moving into action. And I'm guessing Scott, this resonates with you.
Yeah, it's problem. It's, yeah, you can you can put lipstick on that pig. But I'm telling you right now, sometimes it's it's a problem to be able to. And again, but but but I think, for organizations and correct me, you are the professional, it's important to tap into these catalysts because they're there to tap in, or do I use the term corral? I don't know, if I'm running an organization, I'm going to, for me person, I'm going to gravitate to those individuals. But it is is it important for organizations to do that? Find those now
more than ever, right? The term VUCA, right, the volatile, uncertain, complex, ambiguous world was coined in the 1980s. And a lot of organizations were like, Oh, the VUCA world? Yeah, those are those are companies that are really getting disrupted that I'll think about that one day. Well, COVID came along and showed us Yep, the whole world gets disrupted in a single instant. And if you don't have those people that can help you pivot and can help you look at what's happening on the horizon. What is it we can implement to stay relevant right now? That's the ticket to going out of business and mean the rosters every single day, show us the local businesses that are gone that show us the national businesses that are struggling International, and so finding those people that can help you always be ready, always future proof your organization we find to be essential.
But see, that's that's that's exhausting. Right? And I hurt for not for me, not for me. But in industry, you know, we're, we're we gravitate towards, you know, consistent, predictable process. Change is not a it's not a kind word sometimes. And and we're being we're being hit with this tsunami of challenges as a result, and I'm telling you, I for me, being who I am, I think that I got it. I got the challenges associated with a pandemic. But there are good things. And I think the good things are like to your point where you're having real conversations, sort of, you know, distilling it down to real problems to solve. Yeah. And beforehand, it was quite lucky, Fluffy, fluffy tenant. Now it's sort of a bit more real. So, you know, I can't I can't ignore that. But I know that industry wants to gravitate towards predictability. I don't like to change. I don't like I don't like problems. And so we're gonna always work to get that out. How do we how do we nurture that? How do we just accept the fact just crap?
Yeah, I think that there's the the reality that an organization has to create a stasis, right? This is you've lived through enough businesses that you know that when you're a startup, you're just kind of constantly innovating and changing. And everybody wears multiple hats at the same time. And then you hit a tipping point with a business where you have to have things like HR rules, right. And so there's this need for us to have some standardization, when we bring together lots of people. And so when you think about catalysts, and you use the word corral, which is not a bad word, although I prefer the word connect, right, because there's going to spark connect your catalyst, I'm sorry, if you leave your catalyst unchecked, to your point is they're going to be looking at all the opportunities and problems. But if you actually tap them, and connect them, not only with one another, but with leadership, and there's guidance from leadership, saying, Hey, this is the set of problems we want to look at, how can you help us? And if catalysts say, okay, but there's these other problems? Are we going to ignore them? Can we bring them into the list. And if you begin to create a dialogue about what's really happening, that's where the sustainability of an organization can truly happen. Because what you're talking about in terms of that, like we put it in place, and we don't want to change, that's not sustainability. That's how we sustained in the 1950s, when there was very little change. But that's not the world we live in today. Right, we have to be ready for the next disruption. And so if you aren't creating an adaptable, flexible organization that's tapping your people that can help you do that, then you're going to be the one that cracks and falls, because you've put too much structure in place. And so you can build it. So these disruptive people have the guardrails because they're in discussion with you. That's
the key. But you know, and this is, this is therapeutic for me. Right out there, because, because here's the velocity and change right now, right? Like you said, back in the 50s, that changed in happen as it did, but it wasn't as fast. There's this philosophy now. And I'll use me as an example. All right, hi, boom, I'm running man. I'm having a grand time. I've got this vision in my mind, and I see this problem, and I'm going to sit there and conquer it, and come up with solutions. And then when that happens, what happens? I just die. I just get depressed. I get Lawrence. Amaya is like, how do you how do you within an organization deal with that? So reality tells telling you right now, and you said it in your book, by the way her book is move fast break shit, burnout. That's right. And it is the catalyst guide to working well. Right there. It's right there. I have it right. That's the book. But how do you how do you deal with the organization? I get it? We've got to it's got to be a disruptive world out there. And you got to Crowley, how do you deal with that?
Yeah, there's Yeah, and there's a lot of pieces that contribute to what you're talking about. One is, and it says it in the book that burnout is a pretty common phenomenon for Catalyst phenomenon. Globally, we're all experiencing, right. But for catalysts in particular, long before COVID, we run hard exactly, as you said at the problem that got us that's got us all excited. And we tend to allow that excitement to kind of be the thing that's filling our tank, and we may not continue those other rhythms of exercise or seeing our friends. So then by the time we get to the other side of the mountain of that particular exciting challenge, and energy begins to decline, because maybe other people are taking it on or we have to get to what we call orchestration, or you've taken a whole bunch of pressure that people are like, No, we don't really want that because we don't want to have to do the things that mean we have to change, right? And so you feel this resistance when we get to that point, if you have let go of your normal routines that fill up your energy that recharge your battery, then I'm sorry, Scott, you're screwed like that's what happens is that just like our empty your battery is empty. So that's one thing is that you have to start paying attention to your own energy. It's a key factor. And then another is a recognition of where are your particular have strengths and how can the organization rise to to be real with that. So if you are the fire started an organization and you help see the problem, you frame the problem help the organization begin to tackle the problem across the silos, which is something that catalysts are amazing at. Then once you've identified it, given its shape, you know, and started tapping people to help you work on it. You may not be the person to continue that program forward. A lot of catalysts don't take energy from that orchestration piece. And so the more an organization knows you and values you and can support you, if that's not your superpower, then they should be ready to help staff things so that that's not going to have to be yours tomorrow.
Normally, people just run away from you. That's, that's the reality of it. They're rollers, hopped up on goofballs, because this is such a great project. Everybody runs away.
Yeah. Scary. It can be scary. Yeah. And your marketing genius, Scott. So I hope you were able to bring people along a little better than you're indicating. Right.
Yeah. Marketing. Genius. Thank you very much. That's right, listeners. But But here's here's how does a manager of can't can organizations have multiple catalysts? Yes. That can multiple callus work on catalysts work on a project? Yes. Absolutely. How the hell do you keep catalysts from not just ripping out the thorax of somebody else? Just doing Yeah, I can I can see a catalyst. Yeah, in a project. Yeah. But multiple catalysts in a project? It's like thunder don't probably you're so
right. Yep. Yeah. So I mean, this is a key thing. You've been reading the book. So you know that we talked about this quite a bit. But and this is what we teach in the classes that we teach is that we, we can often end up with a negative reputation that is often deserved, to your point, right? Because we can be so frustrated with people and we don't self regulate. And so we can allow that frustration to come out on others, we can be so externally focused on the vision, that we're not paying attention to maybe what that particular change means to someone in front of us, it may threaten their job, it may be calling their baby ugly, maybe we're trying to renovate a process that they put into place. And we're not thinking about what that may mean to them. Right. You and I were having a side conversation earlier about, you know, having to think about that, oh, it was actually just a few minutes ago, right, as I was talking about my background, having to bring the human it until what we do and catalyst have to think about this, too, is that it's not just about this imagined end state. What does that instinct really mean to the humans involved in it in the process to get there. And we often are so focused OUT out there on that horizon that we forget to think about that. And so if we do take the time to do that, we are much more effective at bringing people along.
So there's a there's an interesting, sort of bi directional thing with the catalyst one, yeah. There's the manager side, hey, I, I've got to manage this business. I've got catalysts. I identify the catalyst. I want to leverage the catalyst, I want to be able to work with the catalyst. And so there are skills, there are techniques, there's, there's ways of being able to harness that energy to benefit. Everybody in the company. That's the second side would be Hi, I am a catalyst. Yes. So I go into some sort of the group therapy. Hi, I'm a catalyst. 100%. And then there's, you've got a one, like, recognize that your catalyst, right? Is this say, Hi, I'm a catalyst. Yes. Recognize, and then that deploy the tools that are available to say, Yeah, this is your personality, it is what it is. But we want to be able to harness and nurture and you want this, you want to be able to take this, this superpower that you have, and and do it with, you know, for the betterment of society. So there's like, there's a dual role here, right?
That's exactly right. You've said it perfectly. So, you know, for Shannon, as you mentioned, my co CEO and co author and I, it's interesting because we do represent both sides of those. For me, my highest sense of purpose is to really help catalysts embrace themselves. Because when we can fully accept who we are, we also accept who we aren't. And when we know that we can have a lot of grace for ourselves and grace for the people around us. Right up like oh, yeah, I kiss you off. Cash. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to do that. I got so excited about the idea. This is where my edges are. Right. And then for Shannon, her highest purpose is in really helping to evolve the world. organization so that we can solve the world's problems. And so it's at that intersection of identifying your problem solvers and helping the organizations be ready for us that the magic happens.
It's exciting. Don't get me wrong, I think it's, I think you brought up and you're skirted over it a little bit as a clear purpose, meaning Yes, yeah. For me, knowing that I am up and down, like a dog on pump handle unexcited. And I'm all around, I'm all up and down. And it's. But, but if I don't have a clear vision of like, that purpose of say, Okay, this is the reality of who I am, but I've got to keep on soldiering on. And and, and, and the other thing that you got to sort of mention is, it's, I'll see, I'll see a project. Catalyst, we'll see a project, there's a project, there's sufficient, this is what we need to do blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But the other thing that I struggle with is that, hey, there's another, there's another one. This, that's exciting. And then another one that's exciting, then I was talking to Tracey with a knee. And I got excited about that. 1/3 one? Yep. How do you? How do you see? How do you do like, do I lean back on my therapy chair?
That's right, you sit back and I'll just like, give to the world, Scott. For anyone this is true. And for catalysts, even more so true, potentially, I don't know if that's true. It's more true. The clearer we are on what we want to accomplish in any given timeframe, the easier it is for us to know what we want to say yes. And what we want to say no to. And that's easy enough to say it's harder for catalyst in that our ideas are like children, right? If we if we don't do something, we end up feeling like there's something that needed to be birthed, that we aren't allowing to be birthed. Right, it almost is painful to us to not act on the things that we know that can make the world around us better. And so it's asking a lot to say to ask catalysts to say no, to something we do find work works well is it's the idea of if you're clear on what you want to accomplish in the now. Right, whatever that timeframe is for you. You can have a not right now this. So it doesn't mean I'm killing the baby. But you're just you're asking the question. Okay. Is that idea number two that I just came up with? How aligned is that to the thing I say I really want to accomplish in the next three months? Oh, I don't think it's really supportive of that. Do you want to change the thing that you said you want to do in the next three months? No, I'm really committed to that. Okay. Can we move this new idea into the not right now category? You're like, yeah. Right. And so it has to be an intentional constant. Here's the thing I want to do. I know I have to keep my battery charged. Because if I don't, right, you're the source of the change. If the catalyst battery dies, Scott, that's it. The baby, the baby is dead. Yeah, it's not air.
See, I think you're hitting on some really good points. And this sort of dovetails nicely with with an event let's so listener, if you're listening to this, and you need to get that book, move faster, break shit and burn out. And you're saying to yourself, Scott, I'm a catalyst. It sounds she's talking right to me. And there's an event, there's an event that you've got to you got to participate, and you're not alone. Yes, that's right. The cool thing that is that if there is anything that you walk away from this particular conversation is that you're not alone. You're not an insane. He could be an insane maniac, like, but you're not alone. Not the only one, not the only one. Oh, that's good. You got a posse of people who are sort of similar. And that means I need to there's a there's an event that you guys have scheduled, which is which I'm I'm scheduled to be part of meaning. That's right. What is it? Talk to us about that?
Yes. So twice a year, we host a totally free event, bringing catalysts thought leaders from around the globe and our next one is early 2022. So January 11, and 12th. You can go register for it's called the catalyst empowerment summit, the catalyst empowerment Summit, and I'm pretty sure you're gonna have a link to it on on your right there just real time and we have these amazing speakers like Peter Hinson, who is an accomplished innovation writer is going to be keynoting the first day, we have conversations to talk about how do you build psychological safety, which is so key for us to be able to create change. We have conversations about how do you manage resilience and like you said, keep that energy up. Shannon and I are going to be talking about how do you identify the workplaces that are really a problem appropriate for Catalyst, right? How do we avoid the toxic and the hostile, which you talked a little bit about earlier? Right. And so there's gonna be all kinds of talks. And what we love most about this event is that we've designed it for the catalyst brain. And so they are short talks, they are 20 minute talks. Yeah, then with 10 minutes q&a, and every single 20 minute talk, you walk away with at least three actionable things that you can put directly into play. And as I said, twice, you're always free to come explore your catalytic, it's virtual, right? And it is online. So
I'm going to have all the information out there. Because I think that if, if you find yourself feeling alone out there, and you're saying to yourself, Scott, I, I, I feel the same way. You got it, you got to increase your network that includes people who think the same and be able to come up with strategies of managing, that's your the realities of your personality. That's, I mean, that that's important, if you're pissing people off every day, because you're, you're so rigid. You even though you're right, in your vision, whatever it might be, you're not going to succeed, you're not going to succeed and, and change the organization for everybody better. So it's up to you to manage your superpower and being a catalyst
that said, so Well, there's this you know, oft quoted, it's usually misquoted, and I'll probably just put it now. Maya Angelou saying people won't remember who was right. But they'll still remember how you made them feel. Right, and as catalysts that we really have to take that to heart.
Instead of like, yeah, run away from Scott. JD just FYI. Run away from him. The other way? Yeah. Great. Cubs, Brian, please. All right, Tracey, you were absolutely wonderful. Thank you for being on industry Talk.
Thanks for having me, Scott. It's a joy to start my day with you.
Yeah, it's got a hell of a lot of content coming your way. Now. Remember, go out to industrial talk.com find this interview. We're gonna have the event on my homepage, industrial talk.com. So get signed up. Do not hesitate. Because we got to you're not alone catalyst. Not Alone. Alright. Thank you, Tracey, for joining. Thanks, Scott. All right, listeners. We're gonna wrap it up on the other side, we're gonna have all the contact information for Tracey withany. Right around the corner.
You're listening to the industrial talk Podcast Network.
Yep, that was great conversation. Once again, I want to reiterate. They have this event, January 11, to 12th, January 11, and 12. Next year, yeah, it's just January next year 7am. To 1130. That's Pacific Standard Time. Now it's gonna be out in industrial talk. So don't worry about it, you get the link, you gotta, you gotta get connected. It's virtual. And it has the best price of all, it's free. But you get to hear from people that sort of look at the world the same way you do, and why catalysts are pretty important, especially today's need for disruption and how to survive, also get their book. I'll have a link to that book, too. In fact, I think already have a link out on the homepage. Telling you man, you will not be disappointed. Great people. Great insight, great vision. All right, people before I dare greatly hang out with people like Tracey, and Shannon, and you're going to change the world. Thank you very much for joining industrial talk. We're going to have another great interview. Great conversation right around the corner. So stay tuned.
Transcript
On this episode of industrial talk, we are talking catalysts. Are you a catalyst? What is a catalyst? And as an organization, do you need catalysts? That's what we're talking about on this episode. So let's get cracking.
Welcome to the industrial talk podcast with Scott Mackenzie. Scott is a passionate industry professional dedicated to transferring cutting edge industry focused innovations and trends while highlighting the men and women who keep the world moving. So put on your hardhat, grab your work boots, and let's go
Alright, welcome to industrial talk a platform, a warm and fuzzy place for industry heroes such as yourself, because you are bold, you're brave, you dare greatly. We celebrate you on this podcast, because you innovate, you're changing lives, you're making my life better, and therefore you're making the world a better place each and every day. Take that to the bank. All right, in the hot seat. We have a wonderful person by the name of Tracey Lovejoy. That's T R A C E Y right? Don't forget the E. She is co founder and CO CEO at catalyst constellation. And you know we're going to be talking about Yep, catalysts in what that means. And are you a catalyst and you need to get involved because there's an event that's there. They're putting on on the 11th of January, let's get cracking. All right. We're also we're also brought to you by Neil, you're you've heard me talk about Neil. That's neon, that's an E O M go out to neon.com they're creating, how about this for a bold future? Brave, Daring Greatly vision. They're creating the community of the future. They're putting all of this industry for Dotto, the stuff that we talk about on industrial talk each and every day, with some of the best professionals from around the world. They're putting it into action. They're there, they're putting money where their mouth is, and it is an exciting vision. So go out to neoma.com Find out, I'm telling you, man, you're not going to be disappointed. And we're also brought to you by Deloitte, you've heard that name before, especially now, you need to have a consultant that is got your best interest at heart, because these times right now are very challenging, and you need bright minds. And you need visionary guidance to make sure that you survive and that you create a business of resilience. Go out to deloitte.com Find out more you know them. Alright. So
he ever get that update that that? That iPhone update? Yeah, I just just went through it. I have my iPhone, I got my iPad. I've got everything that's AI related, right? And sometimes I don't like the updates. And you're saying yourself, Scott, why don't you like the update? Because it requires me to change. It requires me to do something different. And then I realized that's what we're all about here in industry, we're all about change. We're all about trying to do something a little bit different, more efficient. It's solving problems. And that is just, that's a factor of change, right? We just need to do that. And so I was complaining, because you could tell by the music. Sometimes it gets a little. No, Poppy, I don't know what you would call it. It skips and it's a digital music, right? Digital, but it skips I can't tell you why. But then I get frustrated. But then I realized that change is good. Yep, changes good. So put that in the back. I don't know where I was going with that. But I just decided that I needed to share my my epiphany when it comes to change and the update with the iPhone, because you know, they make it do something different. You've been doing it one way right with your thumb. And then all of a sudden, you have to change the thumb and now it's at the bottom as opposed to the top. And I can't I can't explain why. I don't know what happened in the star chamber. I phone wherever. They changed it. But I like it. I'm gonna roll with it. That's what I'm about also. So if you've heard the podcast, with Tim, Kobe of Eight Inc. And he's talking about return on experience. I'm fascinated by that because I believe he's onto something that is really important. Now you go go go out find Tim Kobe, like Kobe beef. Right? That's, it's out on industrial talk.com. But the reality is, is that there's truth. And I challenge you and I challenge every listener out here. When you start talking about or thinking about an experience is that experience from your customers perspective, positive or negative? indifferent? I don't know, is there a lasting memory? Is there something there that just says, gosh, that was fun. And and in that experience, you can then begin to develop that relationship. Right? So we did the Christmas and holiday thing. We went to Disneyland Disney World, right Disney World. And we did Epcot. And from the point when you enter in, get it going into the park, you're doing it. It's all about the experience. It's all about what you're hearing, what you're seeing what you're smelling? What's your steady, it's just, it's an inundation. Is that a word? Now, I'm inundated with just experienced stuff. And, and none of it stinks. From my perspective, right? None of it is is off putting, right the food's good that the flowers are pretty, right. Everything is a great experience. And I just came to the conclusion that, yeah, I like experience. And and that's why I offer the podcast because I want to encourage you, if you're listening to this, and you're saying to So Scott, I would like to be on the podcast, I encourage you to do that. I'm all about industrial entertainment, we've got to deliver an entertaining product, we've got to deliver something that is is focused on an experience, right? A positive, because you're doing great stuff out there. As I ramble on, this platform is dedicated to you industrial professionals, it is available to you. And I guarantee you, I guarantee that you will have a great experience. That's That's my guarantee. And you will never come off with this podcast say, I didn't have a good time. I'm telling you. You will. Alright. Segue right here. Alright, so I met, I met Shannon Lucas. She's the other co founder with Tracey Lovejoy. And I met her in San Francisco, and
excellent chest on fire delivers just just fun, passionate stuff, right. And in this world today, we need to have that passion. We need to have that that desire to really help companies help people succeed and create businesses that are resilient. We talked about catalysts. And and I'm not going to go into it because Tracey does a great job of explaining what that is. But the reality is, if you if you listen to this podcast, and you're going oh, my gosh, I'm not alone. That's how I feel. I'm not alone. I feel just it's it's a great book. They have a book. Okay, hold on the catalyst guide to well, working well. Okay, catalyst guide to working well move fast break shit burnout. And that's exactly what we're talking about here. And it's exciting. And it's a wonderful conversation. And they they just, well, it's really Tracey, Shannon's another conversation. But Tracey just hits the nail on the head. So let's get cracking because you need to listen to this podcast, you need to listen to the wisdom that comes from Tracey and team. Catalyst constellation. So enjoy the interview. All right, Tracey with an E. Welcome to industrial talk. Thank you very much for joining. How are you doing today?
I'm so happy to be here with you, Scott. Thanks for having me.
Yeah, every time I look at your name, I see that EY as opposed to just why? Yeah, it causes anxiety for me.
Because I answered anything. Yeah, but people do why I eat with the heart. All answered to Teresa, Terry Stacy. You're good.
All right. Love Georgia. Last Name, right. So we're gonna go out into our stat card listener. You go out there Tracey with an 80 ra see why love joy finder. Catalyst. constellations. Is the company. Do not hesitate. Of course. I'm still pending. I'm still looking at my pending my invite.
You're not You're accepted. Oh, wow.
I mean, let me refresh. Yes, I have number one now. I'm afraid to sit there. All right. All right. For the listeners out there. Tracey, give us a little just 411 on who you are,
and who I am. My background was as a researcher, I studied anthropology and ethnographic methods which you and I were talking about a little bit earlier right that fancy fancy word. ethnography is a form of study of watching people kind of do their normal life and making sense of it. It comes out of the roots of anthropology and sociology. And I got kind of a dream job coming in. into high tech doing that, which was crazy right out of graduate school, and they flew me all over the world getting to watch people use their technology and everyday lives. Because as you know, in industry, right, you even showed me a device earlier. So often engineers are so excited about the idea that they have, and not necessarily thinking about the applicability to people's lives. And so a lot of tech companies have continued to, you know, kind of leverage social science to think about what is it that people really need? And then build from that perspective, and you had a conversation recently about design thinking that I got to hear that was,
I liked that. I liked that, because there's a lot of up. I don't I just think that that we need to do more of that now. Yeah, I think I think pre pandemic pre virus, pre whatever that used to be, it seems like it's been a gazillion years ago. But I believe that we were bringing her seat we were lazy, see be game. And I think now I think that disruption is true. I believe that. That's just me. And I think that it's the grave. Yeah, that's right. And I think today, I think you got to bring your A game. And that's understanding people and what does that look like? And that's what are the dynamics about that? And I'm very intrigued with the term catalyst. Yeah. And Shannon, Lucas, co CEO, of catalyst constellation, define catalyst. What is that? What is that?
Yeah, so most of us know, catalysts from our chemistry, high school, right?
out of my car.
So it's the idea that there was, you know, something that you would add that would create a chemical reaction? Yeah, we're not totally pure to that definition. Because when we talk about our in chemistry, a catalyst then changes, right. Whereas what we're talking about is the the catalyst is a human that moves into situations and can really quickly see what's happening here. And how can things be better. And they take action to move that into being they see a vision, and then they move toward it. So most of us have worked with people like this in kind of organizations that we've been in that person that kind of says, Hey, this doesn't seem like the optimal way for us to do a meeting structure. What if we did it like this? Or hey, CEO, that maybe doesn't seem like the most important goal, given the forces that are happening in the globe right. Now? What if we went ahead and did it like this? And so the catalysts among us, are those of us that are constantly scanning the horizon for opportunities. And we have these many visions that come together, and we cannot stop ourselves moving into action. And I'm guessing Scott, this resonates with you.
Yeah, it's problem. It's, yeah, you can you can put lipstick on that pig. But I'm telling you right now, sometimes it's it's a problem to be able to. And again, but but but I think, for organizations and correct me, you are the professional, it's important to tap into these catalysts because they're there to tap in, or do I use the term corral? I don't know, if I'm running an organization, I'm going to, for me person, I'm going to gravitate to those individuals. But it is is it important for organizations to do that? Find those now
guous world was coined in the:But see, that's that's that's exhausting. Right? And I hurt for not for me, not for me. But in industry, you know, we're, we're we gravitate towards, you know, consistent, predictable process. Change is not a it's not a kind word sometimes. And and we're being we're being hit with this tsunami of challenges as a result, and I'm telling you, I for me, being who I am, I think that I got it. I got the challenges associated with a pandemic. But there are good things. And I think the good things are like to your point where you're having real conversations, sort of, you know, distilling it down to real problems to solve. Yeah. And beforehand, it was quite lucky, Fluffy, fluffy tenant. Now it's sort of a bit more real. So, you know, I can't I can't ignore that. But I know that industry wants to gravitate towards predictability. I don't like to change. I don't like I don't like problems. And so we're gonna always work to get that out. How do we how do we nurture that? How do we just accept the fact just crap?
hat's how we sustained in the:the key. But you know, and this is, this is therapeutic for me. Right out there, because, because here's the velocity and change right now, right? Like you said, back in the 50s, that changed in happen as it did, but it wasn't as fast. There's this philosophy now. And I'll use me as an example. All right, hi, boom, I'm running man. I'm having a grand time. I've got this vision in my mind, and I see this problem, and I'm going to sit there and conquer it, and come up with solutions. And then when that happens, what happens? I just die. I just get depressed. I get Lawrence. Amaya is like, how do you how do you within an organization deal with that? So reality tells telling you right now, and you said it in your book, by the way her book is move fast break shit, burnout. That's right. And it is the catalyst guide to working well. Right there. It's right there. I have it right. That's the book. But how do you how do you deal with the organization? I get it? We've got to it's got to be a disruptive world out there. And you got to Crowley, how do you deal with that?
Yeah, there's Yeah, and there's a lot of pieces that contribute to what you're talking about. One is, and it says it in the book that burnout is a pretty common phenomenon for Catalyst phenomenon. Globally, we're all experiencing, right. But for catalysts in particular, long before COVID, we run hard exactly, as you said at the problem that got us that's got us all excited. And we tend to allow that excitement to kind of be the thing that's filling our tank, and we may not continue those other rhythms of exercise or seeing our friends. So then by the time we get to the other side of the mountain of that particular exciting challenge, and energy begins to decline, because maybe other people are taking it on or we have to get to what we call orchestration, or you've taken a whole bunch of pressure that people are like, No, we don't really want that because we don't want to have to do the things that mean we have to change, right? And so you feel this resistance when we get to that point, if you have let go of your normal routines that fill up your energy that recharge your battery, then I'm sorry, Scott, you're screwed like that's what happens is that just like our empty your battery is empty. So that's one thing is that you have to start paying attention to your own energy. It's a key factor. And then another is a recognition of where are your particular have strengths and how can the organization rise to to be real with that. So if you are the fire started an organization and you help see the problem, you frame the problem help the organization begin to tackle the problem across the silos, which is something that catalysts are amazing at. Then once you've identified it, given its shape, you know, and started tapping people to help you work on it. You may not be the person to continue that program forward. A lot of catalysts don't take energy from that orchestration piece. And so the more an organization knows you and values you and can support you, if that's not your superpower, then they should be ready to help staff things so that that's not going to have to be yours tomorrow.
Normally, people just run away from you. That's, that's the reality of it. They're rollers, hopped up on goofballs, because this is such a great project. Everybody runs away.
Yeah. Scary. It can be scary. Yeah. And your marketing genius, Scott. So I hope you were able to bring people along a little better than you're indicating. Right.
Yeah. Marketing. Genius. Thank you very much. That's right, listeners. But But here's here's how does a manager of can't can organizations have multiple catalysts? Yes. That can multiple callus work on catalysts work on a project? Yes. Absolutely. How the hell do you keep catalysts from not just ripping out the thorax of somebody else? Just doing Yeah, I can I can see a catalyst. Yeah, in a project. Yeah. But multiple catalysts in a project? It's like thunder don't probably you're so
right. Yep. Yeah. So I mean, this is a key thing. You've been reading the book. So you know that we talked about this quite a bit. But and this is what we teach in the classes that we teach is that we, we can often end up with a negative reputation that is often deserved, to your point, right? Because we can be so frustrated with people and we don't self regulate. And so we can allow that frustration to come out on others, we can be so externally focused on the vision, that we're not paying attention to maybe what that particular change means to someone in front of us, it may threaten their job, it may be calling their baby ugly, maybe we're trying to renovate a process that they put into place. And we're not thinking about what that may mean to them. Right. You and I were having a side conversation earlier about, you know, having to think about that, oh, it was actually just a few minutes ago, right, as I was talking about my background, having to bring the human it until what we do and catalyst have to think about this, too, is that it's not just about this imagined end state. What does that instinct really mean to the humans involved in it in the process to get there. And we often are so focused OUT out there on that horizon that we forget to think about that. And so if we do take the time to do that, we are much more effective at bringing people along.
So there's a there's an interesting, sort of bi directional thing with the catalyst one, yeah. There's the manager side, hey, I, I've got to manage this business. I've got catalysts. I identify the catalyst. I want to leverage the catalyst, I want to be able to work with the catalyst. And so there are skills, there are techniques, there's, there's ways of being able to harness that energy to benefit. Everybody in the company. That's the second side would be Hi, I am a catalyst. Yes. So I go into some sort of the group therapy. Hi, I'm a catalyst. 100%. And then there's, you've got a one, like, recognize that your catalyst, right? Is this say, Hi, I'm a catalyst. Yes. Recognize, and then that deploy the tools that are available to say, Yeah, this is your personality, it is what it is. But we want to be able to harness and nurture and you want this, you want to be able to take this, this superpower that you have, and and do it with, you know, for the betterment of society. So there's like, there's a dual role here, right?
That's exactly right. You've said it perfectly. So, you know, for Shannon, as you mentioned, my co CEO and co author and I, it's interesting because we do represent both sides of those. For me, my highest sense of purpose is to really help catalysts embrace themselves. Because when we can fully accept who we are, we also accept who we aren't. And when we know that we can have a lot of grace for ourselves and grace for the people around us. Right up like oh, yeah, I kiss you off. Cash. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to do that. I got so excited about the idea. This is where my edges are. Right. And then for Shannon, her highest purpose is in really helping to evolve the world. organization so that we can solve the world's problems. And so it's at that intersection of identifying your problem solvers and helping the organizations be ready for us that the magic happens.
It's exciting. Don't get me wrong, I think it's, I think you brought up and you're skirted over it a little bit as a clear purpose, meaning Yes, yeah. For me, knowing that I am up and down, like a dog on pump handle unexcited. And I'm all around, I'm all up and down. And it's. But, but if I don't have a clear vision of like, that purpose of say, Okay, this is the reality of who I am, but I've got to keep on soldiering on. And and, and, and the other thing that you got to sort of mention is, it's, I'll see, I'll see a project. Catalyst, we'll see a project, there's a project, there's sufficient, this is what we need to do blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But the other thing that I struggle with is that, hey, there's another, there's another one. This, that's exciting. And then another one that's exciting, then I was talking to Tracey with a knee. And I got excited about that. 1/3 one? Yep. How do you? How do you see? How do you do like, do I lean back on my therapy chair?
That's right, you sit back and I'll just like, give to the world, Scott. For anyone this is true. And for catalysts, even more so true, potentially, I don't know if that's true. It's more true. The clearer we are on what we want to accomplish in any given timeframe, the easier it is for us to know what we want to say yes. And what we want to say no to. And that's easy enough to say it's harder for catalyst in that our ideas are like children, right? If we if we don't do something, we end up feeling like there's something that needed to be birthed, that we aren't allowing to be birthed. Right, it almost is painful to us to not act on the things that we know that can make the world around us better. And so it's asking a lot to say to ask catalysts to say no, to something we do find work works well is it's the idea of if you're clear on what you want to accomplish in the now. Right, whatever that timeframe is for you. You can have a not right now this. So it doesn't mean I'm killing the baby. But you're just you're asking the question. Okay. Is that idea number two that I just came up with? How aligned is that to the thing I say I really want to accomplish in the next three months? Oh, I don't think it's really supportive of that. Do you want to change the thing that you said you want to do in the next three months? No, I'm really committed to that. Okay. Can we move this new idea into the not right now category? You're like, yeah. Right. And so it has to be an intentional constant. Here's the thing I want to do. I know I have to keep my battery charged. Because if I don't, right, you're the source of the change. If the catalyst battery dies, Scott, that's it. The baby, the baby is dead. Yeah, it's not air.
See, I think you're hitting on some really good points. And this sort of dovetails nicely with with an event let's so listener, if you're listening to this, and you need to get that book, move faster, break shit and burn out. And you're saying to yourself, Scott, I'm a catalyst. It sounds she's talking right to me. And there's an event, there's an event that you've got to you got to participate, and you're not alone. Yes, that's right. The cool thing that is that if there is anything that you walk away from this particular conversation is that you're not alone. You're not an insane. He could be an insane maniac, like, but you're not alone. Not the only one, not the only one. Oh, that's good. You got a posse of people who are sort of similar. And that means I need to there's a there's an event that you guys have scheduled, which is which I'm I'm scheduled to be part of meaning. That's right. What is it? Talk to us about that?
obe and our next one is early:I'm going to have all the information out there. Because I think that if, if you find yourself feeling alone out there, and you're saying to yourself, Scott, I, I, I feel the same way. You got it, you got to increase your network that includes people who think the same and be able to come up with strategies of managing, that's your the realities of your personality. That's, I mean, that that's important, if you're pissing people off every day, because you're, you're so rigid. You even though you're right, in your vision, whatever it might be, you're not going to succeed, you're not going to succeed and, and change the organization for everybody better. So it's up to you to manage your superpower and being a catalyst
that said, so Well, there's this you know, oft quoted, it's usually misquoted, and I'll probably just put it now. Maya Angelou saying people won't remember who was right. But they'll still remember how you made them feel. Right, and as catalysts that we really have to take that to heart.
Instead of like, yeah, run away from Scott. JD just FYI. Run away from him. The other way? Yeah. Great. Cubs, Brian, please. All right, Tracey, you were absolutely wonderful. Thank you for being on industry Talk.
Thanks for having me, Scott. It's a joy to start my day with you.
Yeah, it's got a hell of a lot of content coming your way. Now. Remember, go out to industrial talk.com find this interview. We're gonna have the event on my homepage, industrial talk.com. So get signed up. Do not hesitate. Because we got to you're not alone catalyst. Not Alone. Alright. Thank you, Tracey, for joining. Thanks, Scott. All right, listeners. We're gonna wrap it up on the other side, we're gonna have all the contact information for Tracey withany. Right around the corner.
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About the author, Scott
I am Scott MacKenzie, husband, father, and passionate industry educator. From humble beginnings as a lathing contractor and certified journeyman/lineman to an Undergraduate and Master’s Degree in Business Administration, I have applied every aspect of my education and training to lead and influence. I believe in serving and adding value wherever I am called.
