Marcus McCarthy with Siemens Grid Software

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

Industrial Talk, Siemens, digital twin, utility industry, power generation, distribution networks, transmission lines, electrification, cloud technology, data centers, planning analysis, real-time operations, innovation, carbon removal, future demand.

00:03

Scott, welcome to the industrial talk podcast with Scott. MacKenzie. Scott is a passionate industry professional dedicated to transferring cutting edge industry focused innovations and trends while highlighting the men and women who keep the world moving. So put on your hard hat, grab your work boots, and let's go

00:21

all right once again. Welcome to industrial talk. Thank you very much for joining the number one industrial related podcast in the universe, all backed up by data, but Marcus that celebrates you industry professionals all around the world. You're bold, you're brave, you dare greatly, you innovate, you collaborate, you solve problems each and every day. That's why we celebrate you on industrial talk. We are also brought to you by Siemens smart infrastructure and grid software. Go to siemens.com find out more. You will not be disappointed, because they have great people, great company, great solutions. They're just great. There you go. All right, we're broadcasting from distribute tech here in Dallas, Texas, and it is, once again, a collection of problem solvers, and it's massive. It's mass. I've been stuck in the salt mine, so I haven't been able to sort of look at all of the solutions, but I have had the opportunity to go to the Siemens booth, and it was cool. Marcus, how are you doing?

01:19

I'm doing well. Scott, well, I said, thank you very much. Best intro I've had all day,

01:24

probably all year. I'll step out and be bold and say that good conference. It's massive. It's

01:34

good, it's good. Number bigger, space wise, than last year. I think the numbers are probably similar. But really,

01:42

do you have a bigger footprint? We do have a

01:45

bigger footprint this year, yeah, but it's been busy. The booth has been busy.

01:49

Every time I go by it, I can't go. It's just, it's good, sort of a sloppy onlooker. You know, nobody wants to look at me. Somebody wants to talk

01:57

to me, watching everything. Yeah? Might

01:59

as well, yeah. I hover around. See it the activity, but it's cool. I got to tell you, it's cool. Yeah. So before we get into the conversation about all things Siemens, give us a little background on who Marcus is.

02:13

Well, background, yeah, originally spent most of my life in Ireland. We're about the US, in Cork down in the south. Yeah,

02:23

so I had a terminal in Dublin, okay, yeah, there you go.

02:27

Move to the US. I got a

02:29

question to ask you. Go on, how come Guinness tastes different in Ireland, and

02:33

we may have to cut this out afterwards, because it'll take me about a minute to tell you, but there's a good

02:38

reason for it. I just see I digress. This is a podcast. Is important. It's very important.

02:42

Yes. So in Ireland, Guinness, the Keg is not put in the cold room with the other beers. It is served at room temperature. But if you serve Guinness at room temperature, there's a bacteria that grows on the lines between the keg and the tap. In Ireland, Guinness has a fleet of people that go around and clean the lines in every pub that serves Guinness every six weeks. So in Ireland, what you're getting is this wonderful, creamy, different tasting. It's drink everywhere else in the world that doesn't scale, no, so it's cold, so the creaminess and all of that difference is gone. That's the reason why it's different. It's all made in the same place. It's the same brilliant. It's to do with temperature. Brilliant.

03:29

I've never had anybody explain that, and now it makes sense, you've made me a better person, absolutely. All right, let's continue on who Marcus is

03:40

so moved to the US about 12 years ago. Been working with utilities most of my career, distribution, transmission, all different sorts of software systems. I'm a software guy and love the industry. I've tried to move away once or twice, and always ended up coming back. It's just, you know, it's the people in the industry. I really like the people in this industry.

04:02

Yeah, I agree with you 100% I grew up in it, and I back that up, but, but from an industry perspective, just the stuff that's going on. I mean, if you're, if you're sort of, you know, like shiny things. No man, I'll tell you this. This is a, this is a frothy market to be able to do that, to see that, and experience it, and like, Yeah,

04:29

well, for such a long time, we had an industry that was quiet. Nothing changed. Everything was the same. I know same thing every day. It's Groundhog Day, and then all of a sudden, everything's changed. And we're only getting started, everything is going to change even more, I think,

04:44

yeah, I tell everybody, I my, my knowledge of the utility is when I was in lineman, right? And I, I, mine was pretty linear in its design. You know, you got your your massive generator, you got to transmission lines and substations and so on, and down to the end use. Or a customer and and that was the case forever, yes, and now, now we're talking about distribute, distributive energy. We're talking about, how do we optimize and and make that grid more efficient, more responsive, more just, just removing the inefficiencies and still deliver what we want as a consumer, nice, stable, you know, reliable, reliable, safe, no drama. Don't care to have for the drama. You know, that's

05:33

right there. That's what we want, yeah, but not so easy today. I

05:37

was just gonna say that take us through that, just sort of generally speaking, like, what are the pressures happening on everybody's

05:43

board listening to the fact that the amount of power that will need to be delivered across the network in future will be doubled, tripled, whatever. It will be hard, hard to tell everybody's forecasting different things. We need to do that safely and reliably. But at the same time, there is this carbon removal effort from from the generation aspect of creating power that gets transmitted. So these are two competing objectives, and that makes it complex, makes it incredibly complex. But there's no denying, no matter which way you go on this whole global warming thing, there's no denying that everything is going to be electrified in future. So the growth is going to happen no matter where you stand. So we got to figure out how to do that. And that's not so easy. It's not so easy to expand generation and then move the energy from A to B, because it takes a long time to build these things. And that's the that's the job. I'm

06:42

always, I'm always, I stumble. It's a speed bump in the parking lot of my mind that you have this aging infrastructure that, and I Taryn it. I haven't 30 years ago, when I was climbing towers, you know what we were talking about the same thing that we're talking about today, and we have not moved that ball forward, or that, that football or soccer analogy, let's put that one in there. You know, we haven't moved it forward. We haven't advanced it now, all of a sudden, I think we're at a renaissance. Do you agree? Sort of, I mean, the conversations have are beginning to think it's a little serious. The

07:21

you know, the use, the consumption of electricity was was going down for a long for a long period of time, it was going down now it's shooting up again. And we're not ready for it. We're just not ready for it. That's what we're not. Let me give you an example real policing thing that I read last week. You know, that incident in Heathrow last week where, yeah, former blew up, right? Everybody,

07:44

I was at a conference, and there were people trying to get back to the UK, and they said, No, we can't get back. Oh, everybody

07:52

in the world heard about it. Yeah, the transformer that blew up was actually, I think, somewhere between 60 and 80 years old, and they were operating at it at 106% is what I read, right? This is what I read so far now, 60 to 80 years ago, that equipment was designed to be run up to 120% so it's the the right margin of error is built into the design. The fact that it's 60 to 80 years old and still running is is absolutely incredible. It is testament to the way they used to be made a number of years later, though the Transformers were built to a higher specification, a higher tolerance, so that 20% extra of margin was not built into the design of transformers that were built later, but we're still operating with that 20% belief that came from 60 to 80 years ago. So we've got all of these sort of things happening on the network where we've got things made at different times at different specifications, but we run with rules of thumb in a lot of cases, and that rule of thumb is not going to be satisfactory going forward, because and we use rules of thumb because it gives us faster decision making in extremely complex environments. Obviously, yeah, you understand this is alignment, because it's part of the trade that's not going to work with the future that we're facing. It's just going to be too complex for for humans to work on their own and use rules of thumb as shortcuts. It's not going to work continuously. And this is the challenge for the industry right now in terms of providing software that's an assistant to the people that need to manage the safe and reliable delivery.

09:31

So here's a segue, segue into digital twin. So here's, here's some of the things that that I'm I'm bullish on when it comes to digital twin one, I like the fact that I can simulate. I like the fact that I can do for lack of a better term, what if I added this and see how it and I don't have to go out there physically and do that, take us through what Siemens is doing from a digital twin perspective.

09:59

Yeah, so the digital twin is going to be critical to achieving what we just referred to, which is faster, better decision making in a complex environment. So today, every utility does a certain amount of planning, a certain amount of contingency analysis, so Planning for Contingencies, planning to expand networks, planning in all sorts of different ways, and the sharing of those plans within the industry, from distribution to transmission to the ISO RTO, is really, really important in terms of helping each other to plan, because the dependencies exist between the networks. So getting that planning more accurate, getting it to happen faster, and getting it to be more shareable, which is important, the communications are critical. Is really, really important, and that's something we're working on across the board, in terms of creating models that are standardized, that allow simulations to be run on them, and then the outputs and data from those to be shared between different players in the market, and that's really, really important. But probably what's more important and more interesting and more challenging is the fact that we're getting to a stage where operations is planning on a different time scale, when you think about it, right? So you're planning, you've plenty of time to do analysis and come up with results, and that when you get closer to operations, you need the same data often to make a decision on the network, but your time frame is different. You need to do it now within the next 10 minutes. And so one of the challenges is to take data from planning exercises, make it available in real time operations, or to make, indeed, the planning software available so that it can operate far faster using cloud technology with lots of processors, so that we can now run a power flow analysis to see if a specific scenario is reliable, safe to do In a more closer to real time situations. That's one of the example of the things that we're doing. Do you

12:05

have any issues with the cloud and latency? But the latency is not, not, not really much of an issue. Yeah. I mean, it's not a self driving vehicle where you don't want latency, you want no but

12:16

you can have it, and you can have redundancy to it. So the latent when you're doing those types of exercises, latency is isn't really an issue for for for certain systems, the latency to the cloud and the reliability on something outside the organization. Let's take a SCADA system where you're controlling switching, yeah, where you have a safety issue, you have a really important reliability that may not be suitable for the cloud, but then all of the applications that sit on top of your SCADA system may be better off in the cloud, because let me give you an example where you do an analysis, and in certain cases, these are really complicated mathematical analysis using lots of data. You might run it on a computer, an engineering computer, and it might run overnight to give you a result in the morning, if anything goes wrong overnight, you need to rerun it the next day. It's a lot of math involved. If you put that same calculation in the cloud, you can burst out to hundreds of processors, have it done in minutes and have your result now you may not want your data to be in the cloud, but how about a hybrid solution where you keep your data on your own computer, use processing in the cloud to do calculations without exposing your data, and you bring it back to the computer or the laptop. So now you're using the best of both worlds. You're maintaining your data privacy locally, and you're using your processing power in the cloud to get things done more quickly.

13:44

There are two questions. One, of course, is there's a change management component associated with all of this great, you know, wonderful innovation. So you got, you have a company, typically, utilities, it's not a slam on them. They just have operated a certain way forever, and we're asking them to be nimble and embracing the technology even more. So that's one question, and then the other question. So I hate to pile it on, but if I don't, I'll forget, and I don't want to forget. And the other one is, let's say I'm a utility, and I am embracing, and I'm all in, and I've got what I need to do, and I see the future, and I want to be able to impact the future in a way that makes sense. Okay, so I'm gonna, I'm going to embrace this innovation in the technology. But you brought it up that these, these utilities, are interconnected in some way. Not ERCOT, not ERCOT, but all the other utilities are in some way interconnected. Is there a issue with me? I'm venturing versus maybe one that says I'm not ready?

14:57

Let me take the mm. Back a second. So first, firstly, with our card or cut is interconnected with all of the other players. Yeah. However, I understand, yeah, I understand. Then they, they do have, they do have that interconnection with their own distribution utilities, going, going back. The one thing I noticed about the industry is that we're careful for good reason, right? Engineering driven business, but as long as it's fit for purpose, right? And the utility industry will double check, triple check, across the board on the software. But as long as it's fit for purpose, people are ready to ready to adopt, ready to move on to the next thing. Because cool. They're practical people. You know, we've practical problem solvers in the industry, yeah, so that's the, I guess, is one of the things why we find it so refreshing to work with the people. They're very, very realistic. I like that.

15:57

I like that. Now, as for a utility that's interconnected. Is there any sort of dis, sort of friction that can exist between the utilities, one being more future focused, and another one, as I can we're not, we're not there. And of course, I'm small, you're large,

16:20

same as every other industry. I don't it's not really an issue. People love to see other people doing things first, so that they can be the second one to do it, I think, in the industry. So that's, that's good, yeah? And we have people who are willing to step forward and innovate as well. So all good across the board, and and the innovation is coming out of speed in the industry. That's what it is, and gives me hope that we'll, we'll be able to solve the problems ahead of us in terms of the growth that we're expecting.

16:49

I i always say that that, you know, with the advent of AI and all of the buzz that's around that there are tons of companies that hang a shingle, or AI or this my my biggest concern would be finding that trusted Sherpa, that trusted company, that can truly deliver I see the benefits, I accept and embrace the benefits, and I do all of that, but I can't Do it on my own, because I'm already doing other stuff, so I need help.

17:26

19:10

I agree with you that that that that's a good explanation of how fast can we if I'm a utility. And yes, I have some challenges with my distribution. The single line maps Been there, done that been scratched out. That pole doesn't exist. It's over here. Now, you know, but that never gets updated into the the the system, you know, it sits in that truck, and that's fine for now, that's not, and the transmission, you know, I can understand that. How quick can we get, sort of rolling with a digital twin solution, typically,

19:54

it's a process. Yeah, it's not, it's not, there isn't bad. There isn't an endpoint. Yeah, there isn't an end point. But the whole thing is, is people buying into the process and getting themselves on the journey. And there is time and effort and investment to be made. And yeah, the thing is, if you don't start now, you're not going to be wherever you are going to be at date X in the future. And as I say, there is no end point, there is no perfection, but there is a need to be as good as you can be, so that you can do the best job that you can do. In order to do that, you got to start today. And that's that's the message, and that's what people the way people are looking at it, right? So there isn't an easy answer,

20:37

yeah. I agree with you 100% on that. I don't think there's room for lollygaggen and dragging your feet. I think that utilities need to and everybody need to just recognize the realities of the future and the need for, like you said, electrification of everything absolutely, which I think is a great word picture. Yes, I can see it. Yeah, absolutely. For one last question, give us sort of, with all of this digital twin stuff and technology and innovation, give us a sort of a future, your future look of what's taking place. Like, where do you see it going? If we're just at the tip of the iceberg right now, what are we seeing?

21:28

I think we can. I'm not going to hold you to it. I think we can see into the future. We're going to we're going to see demand. We're going to see demand increasing dramatically in focused areas. Right? This whole data center growth is a big deal. Data centers will have their own ability to generate as well as ability to join the grid. So the optimization of that within that high energy consumption facility is going to be really important. How these high energy consumption facilities interact with the grid is going to be really, really important. I love it, yeah. I

22:06

wish I was younger. How do people get a hold

22:09

of you? Marcus mccarthy@siemens.com,

22:13

are you out on LinkedIn? Yeah,

22:15

I'm on LinkedIn as well. Marcus McCarthy, you were

22:20

great. I enjoyed that conversation a lot. Thanks, Scott. No, thank you. All right, Marcus is a must connect. Reach out to him. All the contact information for Marcus will be out on industrial talk. Go to industrial talk.com, and do it. Put that on your to do list. Act today. Make Marcus a part of your network, you won't be disappointed broadcasting from distribute tech as there's no buzz in the background, because apparently we're real early and nobody's here and the AC is not on. How come the AC is not

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on? That's because you were your tweets. Yeah, that's exactly correct. When they turned it

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off. I my fashion did not match the environment, that's for sure. All right, we're gonna wrap it up on the other side. Stay tuned. We will be right back.

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You're listening to the industrial talk Podcast Network.

23:15

Yep, his name is Marcus McCarthy. Put this this gent on your to do list. I encourage you mad skills. You in the world, just in the world of distribution, transmission, power generation. Siemens, good software. You need to reach out to this guy. He's seen it. He's done it. He's experienced it. He knows it like the back of his hand. Marcus McCarthy, what a great conversation. Distribute Tech was the event. It was in Dallas, Texas, and as always, a wonderful event in that industry. You needed to be there is there are some really, really fascinating solutions that exist so that will be impacting your life in a positive way, most definitely. All right, we're building a platform. See this. This industrial talk is here for you. You need to connect with me. Go out to industrial talk.com All right, people will be brave. Dare greatly hang out with Marcus. Change the world. We're gonna have another great conversation coming from distribute tech shortly. So stay tuned. You.