In this week's Industrial Talk Podcast we're talking to Richard Ku with TXOne Network and Trend Micro about “Powerful and Flexible Cybersecurity Network Solutions to Protect your People and Assets”. Get the answers to your “Industrial Cyber Security” questions along with Richard's unique insight on the “How” on this Industrial Talk interview!
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Welcome to the industrial talk podcast with Scott MacKenzie. Scott is a passionate industry professional dedicated to transferring cutting edge industry focused innovations and trends while highlighting the men and women who keep the world moving. So put on your hard hat, grab your work boots, and let's go all right, again. Welcome to industrial talk. This is where we celebrate you. That's right you I'm putting my pin is pointing right at you, industry hero. You are bold, you are brave, you dare greatly you innovate. You solve problems, you ask the questions. Why not? Well, what if you are the dream makers, you are changing lives and you're changing the world. This very day at this very moment. That's why we celebrate you. Alright, this is number five. In a series we are doing on cybersecurity with Trend Micro, Richard Kuh is always in the hot seat, getting peppered with questions from me. And if you have not checked it out, you've got to look at the other podcasts to this one. It builds. This is where it gets real. This is why this is stuff is important. You in the digital transformation world.
You better look into this. Alright, let's get cracking.
Yeah, it gets real. I mean it is it is head if you're saying yourself, Scott, I want to get into that whole digital transformation journey. cybersecurity, Scott, what do I need to do to get in that digital transformation journey? Well, there's a lot of things. And one of them, of course, is a solid, safe, secure environment, and you need solutions. And you're saying to yourself, Scott, but it's complex? Nope. Richard makes it easy. This particular series, this is number five, of course. And we have been on a cybersecurity journey. As you can tell, we've been walking down this path. And just talking cybersecurity, we spoke of cybersecurity threats, sort of laying that foundation. We're talking about the challenges if you're in that digital transformation. That's number two. Number three, we talk about best practice, because you're already cotton, you're saying yeah, I see the threats. Yeah, I see the challenges. What do I need to do best practices? Number four, you need tools? You need things that are just like, yeah, let me plug it in, do this. And I can start on my security journey. Right. And on this particular series, right, number five, we are talking about the hardware we're talking about. Let's just sort of look at my thing here, because I want to make sure that I get this right.
We have spoken one last week on the endpoint products, right endpoint products. How do we how do we deploy those today? This conversation is network products. Yep. Don't worry. Richard does a great job at differentiating the two. Right? And so you can, you know, go out to industrial talk, you got, we got these great downloads. I mean, we've got these diagrams, you don't have to, there is no reason Trust me. There's no reason why you can't just sit there and go, I got it. I got it. Let me chalk this up there. And here it is. here's a here's a diagram, I'm looking at a diagram. We're going to have all of that out on industrialtalk.com and specifically the one of our network, it's a 1010 Deck diagram with
TX, one trend, micro, all of the stuff that's right up there. And it's, it's pretty doggone cool. Even I can follow it. And I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed. Now, before we get into this interview, I want to just make sure that you understand industrial talk is going down the road of industrial talk to Dotto, because I have no other word to call it, it's a change. And I want to make sure that you understand we're not just highlighting me and, and and these wonderful professionals. They're going to be videos, there's going to be articles, and it's going to just be across the board not coming from me but coming from industry, industry leaders who are at the cutting edge, you just go there and then springboard wherever you want to go. If you want information, the latest and greatest information brought to you in a way that All right, this is pretty cool. Industrial talk, the the new one is where you want to go. Trust me, you do want to go there. The number two part is that
we have this industrial Academy, then we're going to put all this stuff out there on industrial Academy to and what we have come up with is a sort of show, you know share it forward or or give it forward or whatever that that term is, but from an educational perspective to communities and organizations that are in need of what we
These leaders bring to the marketplace, they've got to learn education changes, education changes lives. It's the bottom line. And we have to collaborate, we have to come together to, to share and be able to provide this wonderful information that is, is available out there. Go to industrial talk, be a part of that effort. Because there are a lot of people, a lot of communities, a lot of countries around the world that would greatly benefit from your insights. And if you want to be an instructor, if you want to share your knowledge, the industrial Academy is where it's at. We'd love to have you on that Academy so that we can help the world from an industrial education perspective. Don't get off tinkly. about that. I know I do. I do. You guys have got it. industry can change the world and change lives. That's the bottom line. All right, let's get on with the interview.
Well, let's say the series a continuation of the series. Once again, this is network stuff. This we've talked about endpoint, we've got a series out there it is a must sort of consume, and re consume it. Get this stuff, right. Okay. So out on industrial talk, we're going to have this deck, it's going to be in PDF form. and download it, see it, grab it, learn it, listen to Richard, reach out to them, reach out to th one reach out to Trend Micro you will not be disappointed. Alright, let's get going. Enjoy the interview. All right, Richard, welcome back to industrial talk. Now, listeners, this is an important conversation. We're talking cyber security. We're talking we we've laid the foundation, we have a number of cybersecurity related related topics for you to consume. And this one is we're talking about now that we've recognized the the challenges that exist out there, we need solutions, we need solutions to be able to deploy. And that's this particular conversation now, Richard, thank you again, as always, for joining industrial talk, how you doing?
Good. Thank you, Scott. Good to be back. And I'm happy for for you and your family. Why? Thank you very much, I appreciate that back at you. Absolutely. back at you. Now, let's, let's let's level set, let's talk about products, because we can all talk about the challenges that exist out there, but we need to put something into action. And that's where we're talking about products and solutions that Trend Micro and TX one networks provide? So at our last episode, can you sort of sort of lay out the difference between it OT and all of that good stuff, so that the listeners sort of get oriented?
Yeah, so you know, I think, as we speak many time, right? You know, one of the big changes in this digital transformation is the convergence of the it OT, and in order for us to provide, you know, a clear guideline for our customer and our partner, you know, we need to kind of define what is, you know, IoT device versus ot devices? Right. And so that's clear. So, you know, I did typically, you know, from my experience, you know, on the IT environment, typically, most of these are multi purpose system and designed to do multiple things like maybe running Microsoft Office, right, or doing some kind of video conferencing, right, or, you know, then this typically on it, so I usually have the latest and greatest version of the operating system. They require internet connectivity for tasks to be complete, right, and they have a higher tolerance for, you know, interruption or latency. And, you know, I think, you know, on the, you know, it side, people typically look at confidentiality as kind of their priority, right. But when you look at the OT environment, the system are typically, you know, mission critical, I carry maybe a single task or, you know, carrying, you know, maybe the tasks are both the productivities, as well as the
ability of the system is got low tolerance for, you know, interruption and latency, because they have been around for years and decades. And they're designed to do you know, one task, right. And so any type of performance impact would be a big challenge. You know, some of the system on the OT environment are typically air gapped, right? They have no internet connectivities and update in patches, right? Typically doesn't happen, you know, often right? And they have to be on a schedule maintenance in order for them to do any updates or patches. And, you know, I think availability and safety is kind of the priority, right for many
This organization on the OT side, right, so on a high level, I think those are kind of distinction between the it OT, and then when you go down to the, you know, product level last year was a podcast, we talked about our employee product. And these are, you know, you know, typically designed for employees that have issues deploying, let's say, a conventional, you know, you know, anti malware or security solution, because, you know, these environments are typically your legacy, and in tenant for doing your single task, and the resources are limited, and they have no internet connection. So you need a special type of endpoint solution that's designed for those. And that's what we talked about on the last, you know, basically podcast, right? Now, let's shift gear to the networking product, right. The networking product, typically, you know, you know, what we have here is are designed to address some of the challenges in you know, OT networks, and that will be happening when you have kind of like a big flat networks without proper segmentation, or you have a lot of unpatched protocol or vulnerability protocols or on you know, depend also as you know, a lot of unpatched, you know, say, devices, right, that you need to address. And, you know, also, you know, someone in our network environment typically have weak authentication, right, and non encrypted communication, you know, between different devices. Right. So, that's what the network product is designed to address. So as endorser diversity to different the type of solution that we have, let me ask you this question.
Just to find for the listeners out there, what do you mean by big flat networks?
Well, I've got traditionally, right, you have, I would say, you know, on the OT side, you have people, you know, building the networks, and just the hiring pieces to arrive and not, not really well design or structure. And so you're gonna have basically system device everywhere, but what are our say, architect well into that environment, so you can see a very flat network like that, and it's more challenging to address because they're everywhere. Right? Thank you that that, that makes complete sense. Now, let's start talking about now that you've identified that big flat network, you identify the challenges associated with an ad just, that's, that's pretty much all businesses out there, they just sort of evolve and grow as, as business needs. That's a mad right. So let's talk a little bit about how we can sort of secure that big flat network.
Yes, so, you know, within a network product or solution that we have, we have a total of,
you know, four products that is designed for that kind of environment, right. And so, the very first product we have is called the edge IPS. And these are basically a single segment and then designed to address a darkened environment and they typically, you know, think this system about 300 megabit per second, just, you know, now analyze the traffic and it's very versatile and can be deployed easily. And you know, the hrps itself can also provide some level of IP and protocol whitelisting in there, it can be deployed in a harsh environment, and we also provide you know, your virtual patching right onto the device itself. And it is how we bypass right. So, this is kind of our single segment, edge IPS product or the next level product
is called the edge fire. And this is basically is a tool
when, and you know, I was a VLAN interface, and it can help you to you know, do some level of micro segmentation, right, and it can also be deployed on a harsh environment, or it also include currently virtual patching, and you know, if you like, right, you know, typically we have this convergence between it or, or even like, say, at the shop floor, or let's say in a manufacturer, you can actually put a, you know, between East and West traffic protection, right. So, it's got some,
you know, network access, you know, you know, I think control in there and you know, nit in firewall capability. So this is kind of our hrps right, and then the next level of the product we have is the edge IPS probe. This is a system or network device that have
1224 and 36 and 48 segments, you can deploy to the current environment when you know, and they typically they are about 10 gigabit per second to, you know 20 gigabit per second. So it's a high performance, you know, you're in the system right and it allows you to basically can deploy an interstate between East and West traffic or maybe north and south traffic, but in
this particular edge IP is broken help you to basically cry on a network, you know, do you do like a network segmentation is got its own dedicated in the management port. And you know, it also provided a virtual patching, audit from programmable hardware bypass are also included, and it can be deployed like to say on East West traffic. Very good. And I got
I got an interrupt here, when we start talking about east west, north south traffic, what do you mean by that?
Yeah, so typically, when you have this convergence, right, between
God, right, and, you know, you know, and that's what we call it on the east and west traffic, right, you know, maybe the old ci ci will be kind of your web traffic and kind of your it sites to ease traffic in between, right, you might have a DMZ zone, right. And that's where we call, you know, East West traffic. And then I did on the previous
I think, you know, podcasts that we did, I talked about the iisa, you know, IEC 62443,
you know, reference model, a lot of people call it the producer model, right. And when you look at, you know, that kind of architecture or reference architecture, used, you know, you know, organization typically layout, you know, the gen network architecture, from a level zero, level one, level two, level three, and a in to the enterprise environment and the different level, that's what we call the north south traffic, because you have a device talking to maybe a PLC, and an HDMI machine was on a SCADA system, right? So that's that level is called what we call the north south traffic, and then between it OT, that's what we call east and west traffic. All right, very good. I had to ask the question, because I'm sitting there thinking to myself, What do you mean by that, but now it's, so listeners, we're gonna have the the diagram, when he starts talking about north south, we talk about level 123, and so on, there's a good diagram that is, will be available. And then of course, East West, it OT and all of that convergent, which is an important component that don't don't gloss over it. That's that's important, too. All right. Now, we know what you guys got. Maybe I got the audience. Oh, you want to?
Yeah, I can we can share that reference architecture.
We want on that.
podcast right now. All right, listeners, we're gonna be sharing it as we speak, right, as we speak.
All right, here it is. If you're out there on video, you'll see it if you're out there on podcasts, we'll go to the video because you won't be able to see it on a podcast. So here we go. We've got the diagram. Take us through it again there, Richard.
Yeah, so this is, you know, it typical, our, say, reference architecture that I put together. And I take into account on the left side is the OT networks, right? This is the, you know, OT environment, and on the right side, which is the information technology environment, right. And that is what your traditional IT environment on the top is kind of your cloud and virtualization or, you know, what I call the connected world,
you know, for the cloud. And so when you look at this environment, you can see there is a bridge, right, or a DMZ zone between it on the right side, and then the old T on the left side, right, and this what I call the currently where you can deploy some of the edge IPS pro in that area. And this is kind of what we call the east and west traffic, and then the different levels from level zero, you know, 123 and four, into the cloud, right? And that's kind of what we call it because I know it's out, you know, traffic. And that's where you can deploy some of our solution, you can deploy as a one to one relationship as a maybe putting ntps in front of a PLC. Or you can deploy, let's say an edge IPS Pro, right in front of whole level or the whole segment, right. And so that's what we call the north and south traffic. So hopefully that kind of cleared up a little bit. cleared it up for me, and I'm the most important person on this pocket.
Just kidding, don't don't even die. I don't want to hear any email saying, Scott, That's not right. All right, let's go into. So we have right now we have the the, we've talked about edge IPS, we've talked about edge fire, we spoke about edge IPS Pro, we talked about one to one, one to many relationships. And, and that's all great, that's all good. But I need to see this information, I need to understand what's taking place, what type of solutions do you have out there for that? Right. So, you know, with all those different products, as you meant, it is very challenging, right for customer and you know, partner to have visibility into, you know, all the different devices that they have, you know, what type of threat is being detected, what type of protocol they are, you know, we are intercepting. And so, you know, we also develop a, you know, a product called key defense counsel, right, and this can support up to 1000, network segmentation, right. And it provide basically, a centralized management for you to, you know, have better visibility into all different threats that come into your environment, and, you know, whatever activity is there, and what type of threat that we detect. And but also it gives you the ability to basically Central, basically, deploy security policy, right, and, you know, the latest signatures or rules across Samsung device, right. And, you know, like, a lot of challenges and a lot of people have is, you know, all the different shadow ot or the different devices coming through, right? How do you have visibility into production environment. And so this Management Console also give you that level of visibility across all your audio devices. And it can be integrated with your let's say, you know, a third party, same platform, right, if you have your own SOC, and you want to be able to integrate all the train record, you know, gx one networks, solution into the SIM, we can send all those log orders, you know, threat intelligence directly from our console into the sim so that people can have now a corporate wide visibility across both the IT side, and OTS are on the same. So this is something that we can provide using this central management product called the old key defense counsel. Okay, so I stick my business hat on, I recognize the necessity to have a robust cybersecurity strategy. You've mentioned, three products that are out there, OT environment, whatever it might be. And then of course, you got the Council, the console, excuse me, that allows us to sort of take a greater look at all of the data and all the information and be able to be proactive in our action.
What, where do I even start? Okay, you got the edge IPS, you've got the edge fire, you've got the edge IPS Pro, you got the console? Where do I start?
Yeah, so that's a very good question, Scott. And typically,
you know, many of our customers, you know, come to us, right. And, you know, we will basically, you know, talk to them about some of the business and technical challenges they have. And we'll try to assess what kind of environment they have, what what type of, you know, issue they have, and then we will provide the right recommendation, you know, to them, right, and, and also the level of comfort that they might have, for example, you know, some organization may not want to deploy, you know, the complete solution, or what we call the defense in depth solution, right, from endpoint all the way up to the cloud. And in the network, in everything in between, you know, what some people typically do is they say, Hey, you know, what, I have, you know, HDMI machine running Windows XP is and has been around for decades and don't have a lot of patch of vulnerability, and we got a lot of vulnerability, what can you guys do to help us and so we'll assess that kind of use case, and then we will provide the right offering to address that simple inability Hmm, machine, you know, for in this case, it would be a stellar one, you know, still in force or sell or protect, right. So, that can certainly typically happen quite a bit. But we will help the customer through that journey to get the right product into the right environment, and also the level of comfort that they might have. I like the term journey because, for me, if I had my business hat on, I would be overwhelmed. I would, I would know one side that there are challenges that exist within the cyber security
space in my business. And again, I don't know where to go, I don't know where to start, I don't know where to take my first step. And it's it's imperative that I have a relationship with an organization that can guide. Do I have to? Can I do it incrementally Do I have to make? I mean, you've got so many wonderful products. Can I do it incrementally? The Big Bang? What what? What's the recommendation?
Yeah, so I think, as I mentioned, right, is really depend on the comfort level of the customer, you know, as we all know, right on the OT environment, or traditional, you know, these devices never have any security built in or security does not get play a very important role. And so many organizations tend to kind of, you know, I will say, deploy a solution like this smaller, incremental, you know, why, right. So, you know, last, you know, I will say, you know, episode, we talked about the different endpoint, right. And so, you know, for example, if you just want to start with scanning all the contracted machine, right only first, before they do any kind of maintenance on my PLCs, or my network, OT networks, you could just get a product called portable security, right, or you just do the scanning of all the contracted machine before you come in, right. And then that will be kind of maybe the simplest and easiest way to start. And then you might go to the next stage, right, where you say, now I feel a little bit more comfortable, let me put something in a, let's say, my Windows XP machine, because they haven't been able to get any patches have been vulnerable, and we're just worried and concerned, then you can go to next step where you deploy all your stellar, protect or enforce into that environment, right? So yes, you have the option I and you know, to basically deploy them incrementally, or you can deploy everything really up to your comfort level. And that's what we're here to, to kind of here to help you to go through that process. And make sure we make you feel comfortable. And then you can deploy the solution. And typically, the customer also will kind of go through the proof of concept, right? Make sure that they feel very comfortable before they actually deploy. So so all those options are available to the customer. I think it's important, I think this is a vital conversation.
In given the speed, just like anything else, even this digital transformation journey that we've been talking about and the necessity to to deploy proper cybersecurity, it's moving fast as well. And just like cybersecurity, it's moving fast as well. This is this is a subject and topic and relationship that needs to be nurtured. Because you can't do this on your own, you need
companies like Trend Micro TX one networks, to be able to develop that relationship, because just telling you right now, for me, personally, I get nervous, I get nervous when I hear things like that. And that means I want to look for strategic partners to be able to have great conversations to make sure that that my business is secure. How would somebody get ahold of you there Richard?
Yeah, so, you know, all these different solutions are just talked about right there are endpoint solution or networking products, right, they are readily available through all our channel partners right turn micro is very much you know, a channel company so we actually sell the market orders back to our channel policy, you can reach out to your channel partners for you know, recommendation and guidelines on how to get access to some of these products. Or you can reach when you go to our website to get a little bit more information on email@example.com or you can also go to our TX one network their website and you can find more information. And if you want to reach out to me, you can email me at Richard underscore k u at when Microsoft COMM And I'm happy to answer any questions you might have you related to some this particular product we just mentioned, this is more of a very high level. And if you want a more deep dive, then you know we'll set up a call and we'll walk through this product for you. Alright listeners, there's no excuse. You have all the contact information. This is an important topic. This is an important solution. This is important for your business and the integrity of your business. Reach out to Richard and team Trend Micro very important. Do not hesitate. They'll they'll they'll help you through it and hold your hands because they they've been through it and this is a very, very important. Richard, thank you very much for joining again, industrial Talk.
Thank you, Scott. All right, listeners. We're gonna wrap it up on the other side. All the contact information will be out on industrial talk as well as
All of the presentations, everything that you need to get this thing rolling will be out there. Thank you very much. Stay tuned. You're listening to the industrial talk Podcast Network.
All right, this is once again, it gets real here. This is cybersecurity. This is a series this is number five in a hopefully expanding series, because this topic is absolutely important. And must, must be shared with the globe. Alright, Richard knocked it out of the park. Again, that works. Alright. Again, I want you to hear me out.
What you have inside your head is important. And it can change lives. If you're an industry. The industrial Academy is for you. I want I want to encourage you to reach out to me and say, Scott, I want to be a part of that great. And I want to be able to share that education with the world. That's what this whole beautiful digital world that we live in. You can change lives. You can transform lives, you can definitely create dreams. You are bold, you are brave. You dare greatly hang out with people who are bold and brave and daring greatly.
Nothing could stop you. All right, we're gonna have another great, hopefully, cybersecurity interview right around the corner.