Scott Drake with JumpCoach
On this week's Industrial Talk we're talking to Scott Drake, CEO and Executive Director with JumpCoach about “Growing Modern and Agile Leaders in Weeks, NOT Years.”. Get the answers to your “Leadership” questions along with Scott's unique insight on the “How” on this Industrial Talk interview!
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Company Website: https://www.jumpcoach.com/
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PODCAST TRANSCRIPT:
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, leaders, scott, leadership, organization, problems, industry, world, manager, challenges, culture, company, purpose, train, skills, important, build, contact, coach, manufacturing
SPEAKERS
Scott MacKenzie
Welcome to the industrial talk podcast with Scott Mackenzie. Scott is a passionate industry professional dedicated to transferring cutting edge industry focused innovations and trends while highlighting the men and women who keep the world moving. So put on your hard hat, grab your work boots, and let's get
to it. Hello there. Welcome to industrial talk, the number one industrial related podcast in the universe that celebrates industry heroes all around the world. Because you are bold, you are brave, you dare greatly. You're solving problems. You're innovating like nobody's business, and you're changing lives, and you are changing the world. And that's why we celebrate you here on industrial talk. All right, Scott, Drake is the gentleman in the hot seat. He is the founder and executive director of jump coach, and growing modern, agile leaders is the topic of conversation, let's get cracking. Leadership. So all of this innovation stuff that's happening out there, the number one, the number, and I mean, numero uno, reason why things do not succeed. So I always getting down to leaders and people and culture. It's always a human equation that impacts definitely impacts success and failure of whatever initiative you're you're working on. So that's Scott Drake right there. We'll have more to say about it. All right. Here's a couple of things. I want to make sure that you keep in your mind. Right. So I've been noodling on some things about marketing and sales. And I'm a big marketer, and I love sales and I, it's a, it's a passion of mine. But I want to throw this out for you. And it's stats. Everybody says, Hey, you got to sell with stats. Oh, so was stats here. Let's see what we got here. It was at, I was looking at it oh, here it is. Here it is. So, note this note this 45% of sales, people never follow up with the prospect 45% This is a stats and I I'm just sort of regurgitating the stats. 25% of salespeople make the second contact and stop. Okay, 12% just a measly 12% of salespeople make three contacts and stop and only 10% Go beyond the three contacts. But here's the real reason why you want to multi contact, multi touch is that 2% of sales happen to only two with the first contact, okay, we're an industry we're selling, we're doing a lot of things with, with innovation, these are big, big challenges, and I don't think you're going to be able to, you know, meet one time at boomin. The, the deal is cut 3% of the sales made. On the second contact 5% of the sales made is on the third contact 10% On the fourth contact. But here's the real clicker. 80% of the sales are made on the fifth and 12th contact, fifth through 12. Contact. That's a lot. So my question to you is what type of mechanisms do you have in place that adds value every time you're making contact, and you can add its multi contact? Because clearly, your sales will truly benefit if you have a mechanism to be able to constantly and revolving around those contacts and adding value. You know why? Why do they want to listen, you better add value, you better add value to what they are doing. The other thing is,
it's a little quote, it's just a teeny little quote, the fortunes are in the follow up. How about that is true? I don't think you can deny that. So if I was running sales, which I've had I've done in the past, or marketing, which I've done in the past, or running companies, which I've done in the past, is I want a multi touch, multi connection process that adds value every time. Not to me not to my company, but to them. Am I solving their problems? Right? That contact that solves the problem. You know, that to me is where it's at and do you have that funnel in place? I just throw it out. I'm gonna continue to harp on that just because I think it's so important for your success. It's important for mine, Guy No, I do I have multi contact, you know, all right, couple of events that you need to put on your calendar. But I'm broadcasting from these events, which is pretty cool. And I'm excited about broadcasting from these events. And the reason I'm excited is because it sort of feels like normal, right? Feels like normal things are, you know, sort of, it just feels good, right? And and I get to broadcast I'm very fortunate to broadcast and connect with people, and have a great time, and have meaning and purpose in these connections. The first event is the IoT solutions, World Congress, this is in Barcelona, if you have to go to if you have to go to Europe, I guess Barcelona would be the place to go, this is the 10th through the 12th of May, right around the corner. I'm excited about it. And this is a unique event, because they really work on providing real solutions to your challenges and your goodness, you get to sit there and talk to people that have the solutions. And it's a worthwhile event. It'll be my third time there. And I've been very, very, very, very fortunate to be able to do that. That's IoT solutions, World Congress 10, to the 12th. The other one is distribute tech, this is May 23rd, to the 25th. This is in Dallas, Texas. And it is really sort of the premier event, we're broadcasting there to premier event that features a lot of the utility generation solutions that that are needed to bring this whole utility industry moving forward. Distribute tech, so I'll be broadcasting there. So you know, be on the lookout of that. And then another one, finally, this is sort of a smaller one, but very focused on digital manufacturing Summit. This is that's what's called digital manufacturing Summit, and that's made 19th And that is in Chicago. And again, there's some there's some great things that are taking place, we've got to consider to have that digital mindset. But there are a lot of components associated with you. And that success, just f y i It's important. We haven't even touched upon cybersecurity, I mean, you touched upon a lot of the elements. And so we're going to have to start painting that picture of that holistic look at digital transformation, finding trusted members of your team to be able to make that happen, because the reality is, you're going to have to do it. If you're a manufacturing, you got to do it. So find somebody that you truly trust, work with them move forward. There are a lot of things being discussed out here. Now finally, I've got to Mike, I call them micro micro webinars. And the reason I was micro I, I gotta be truthful with you, I'm impatient. I always want to move fast. And I do struggle with something that lasts longer than an hour, right? It's just, you know, as my wife has my kids, they'll concur. But the reality is, is that we have to have, we have to have consistent, more, I say, micro webinars focused on real challenges. So I'm working on one that is called utility maintenance. There's a lot of stuff that's happening out there in the world of utilities. And this is like a No BS approach obtainment time and money. That's one. So be on the lookout for that. And another one is manufacturing, we're still sort of figuring out what that title might be. But there's a ton of options. But this is the ability to react to look at and and really ask, you know, if you're not traveling around, whatever, ask leaders that have questions that are you're struggling with. And then and then it'll be out there and it'll be evergreen, and you can follow up. And so you know, here at industrial talk, we just want you to be a success, how's that? We do. We're going to provide everything that we could possibly do and then some if you want to connect with them. That's what we're all about that those are micro webinars, one in utility maintenance, and the other one in manufacturing. And we got a lot more scheduled. All right.
On to the interview, Scott Drake. Now I've been a little remiss because Scott and I had a conversation some months back and I'm finally getting around, but he knows what he's talking about. And for a guy like me, who tends to be a little impatient. This is write down my just ate I ate it up. It's like growing modern and agile leaders in weeks, weeks. I'm all in. I need leadership. Yes. Not years, helping scaling organizations grow leadership teams. How can you argue with that? That's got Drake, jump coach is the organization. Enjoy the conversation. Scott, welcome to industrial talk. Thank you very much for finding time in your busy schedule to talk to the iron Have to say the best listeners around the world. How're you doing today? I'm good, Scott, how you doing today? Thank you for asking. I'm doing well. I'm telling you listeners, we're gonna have a great conversation. And it's about leadership, but it's about a topic that is near and dear to my heart and for many manufacturers, many in industry is, what do we do? How do we, how do we build up a workforce that is engaged, that wants to be there, and we're just, it's a topic that's got to happen. It's just got to happen. Alright, Scott, before we get into the conversation, give us a little background on who you are, and why you're such an incredible professional.
Well, thanks, God. Yeah, so yeah, my name is Kendrick, I'm an executive director of a company called Jump coach. And my background is in tech, I kind of came up through the ranks in tech, I spent some time early my career at Microsoft, and then some time down into Silicon Valley, getting into leadership, and then making all the mistakes in leadership, and learning a lot of lessons in leadership. And as as I moved up the ranks, I started seeing the leaders behind me making all the same mistakes that I had made. And I thought there's got to be a better way to grow leaders who really know how to build engage teams, and who really know how to work together as a team. So, so I sat down on a research project, and, and built some tools, and in earlier this year, have embarked on this, and I'm gonna make this the next 1015 years of my journey is to really say how do we how do we get the leaders in place that, that can really build the companies that we need in the future?
Yeah, we have COVID, we have the pandemic. And I, and one of the observations that I had with this pandemic, outside of the fact that pre pandemic, I thought we were bringing our C and B game to the table, but now I have to bring the a game, but it also highlighted leadership weakness, you know, either you are a good leader and being able to navigate the waters of this pandemic, or you are struggling as a leader to try to figure out how to navigate these waters of this, this pandemic. But, you know, neither here nor there, we're here. So let's talk about workforce. One of the areas that many within manufacturing many within industry is they're having a hard time, and they're having a big time, hard time finding people finding a workforce that is engaged, that is necessary to keep their doors open, to keep their legacy of whatever their businesses and and, and keep them in the door, keep creating sort of a stickiness. Let's talk a little bit about that. Those are the challenges. Let's talk a little bit about four factor hiring, which is interesting to me, give us a little background on what that means.
Yeah, so four factor hiring is, is basically, you, when you get hiring, right, it's a magic, right? You know, the people are engaged, they want to be there, they do a great job, they show up prepared to work, but when you get it wrong, like it can really be damaging. And you can do a lot of problems that all industry are dealing with a turnover, or people who don't do good work or don't care are they, you know, give poor customer service and some of those things. So what we found it again, I come into the tech world, and we kind of been dealing with a lot of the problems that other sectors are starting to deal with. Now, we've been dealing with this stuff for 2025 years. And what we've found in tech, oh, what I found is that when I would hire for, hey, I need somebody who has this particular skill, and somebody who will take the pay that I can offer them and is happy with the perks that I can put in front of them, then that person might show up, but they're really often not going to be a good employee. And they may quit in six months. And they may drive me crazy as a manager because I'm having to try to coach them all the behaviors that I want them to do and coach out of the behaviors I want them to not do, right. So four factor basically says look you've got what are the skills? What are the extrinsic motivators, the pay and the perks that you put in front of somebody. Then the third part is that fifth piece, which is to say, what behaviors what code of conduct does this person need to naturally exhibit? And then the fourth piece is really, why does this why will this person be motivated? Right? What is it about my organization that we can provide this person that's going to bring intrinsic motivation, and have that person show up every day excited to be there? And we have to hire for that, right? We can't just assume that every organization is same different organizations gonna find different things within these intrinsic motivators to, to bring the right people in place. So it's really about hiring for all four of those and then managing for all four of those is what we help companies do.
But I gotta tell you, I'm desperate. Manufacture I'm desperate. I need people I need bodies, and it doesn't sound sexy. But I need bodies. I need people to fill roles. And it's almost like, is it better to to identify the skills, take your time, identify the skills, but to really identify number three that fit that individual that fits the culture. Is it better for that? I I don't know. I don't have an answer. All I know is I need people and I'm somewhat desperate. Is it better to look at that and then teach to it. What what? What's your thinking on that?
So it depends. I mean, there's no one right answer, I think different people can find different success in different places. But we really sit down and we got to start asking why do people want to be here? Right? It pay is not enough, right? I can pay them $15 An hour or $20 an hour or $40 an hour pay is not going to get people to show up with their hearts and minds, right? There's got to be something else. And those something else is tend to be your code of conduct. And some of those things are they tend to be your purpose? Why do you exist? What are the types of products maybe that you're, that you're creating, and the services that you're offering that those have a meaning to somebody, right, what you're doing your work has meaning to somebody else. And in that work, you can put some purpose, or it may be growth, like, I'm going to show up, and I'm going to give my best for the next two or three years, because I'm going to grow, and I'm going to be a better person when I come out the other side of it. So there's got to be something else there. And it's really in being honest with yourself as a business leader, and saying, What are we offering these people beyond the pay in the parks, that is really where you're going to find the solutions to some of these
problems? You know, it's interesting, because I don't think we cover purpose. Enough. I don't think that industry as a whole, under, they might say, Hey, this is our mission statement. This is our values, whatever, this is our vision. But really, when we start talking about purpose, what, what does that mean, from your perspective telescope?
From my perspective, it is why do I want to show up every day and give my heart and soul to this, and it's not going to be for X dollars an hour, right? And it may be for my team, it may be that I show up every day, and do my best and give my best because I'm part of this team. And maybe because of the problems that we solve and the people that we get to help. There's different things that you can build a purpose around it, it's not always some aspiration, or some big, you know, the fuzzy thing, it's often some very concrete things. I know there's one, one store, I can't remember where I heard about, like there was a roofing company that they decided to make their purpose, giving ex cons a second chance, right. So all of a sudden, this organization has something beyond just being another roofing contractor that everybody's just just price shopping on. And they built something else around this business to say, we have a purpose beyond just that. And that's what attracted a lot of people and a lot of the problems that that company that industry sees as a whole, that company no longer saw because they built something else around what they were doing. That's the kind of thing that you can build purposes around.
Yeah, and I see that if I me, if I had a desire to build a business of resilience, I would want to make sure that everybody is rowing in the same direction on the boat. And that, to me is a focus on on purpose and why we're here and what what is the ultimate goal and challenge and and we're all just motivated to do that. And and Is it is it better for me and I looked at the four factors, you've got skills, you're looking at skills, you're looking at motivators fit culture, and intrinsic motivators. How's that different number two, and number four differ from each other.
So intrinsic motivators are the things that are paying perks are things external to me, right? They're not things necessarily control, they're not only things that I feel, right, they're things that I get, and getting things is only going to motivate me so far. And it hits a point where you get these intrinsic motivation, which is I'm going to do this because it's interesting for me, right, there's something in it, that I get some reward that is either intellectual or emotional. From doing this work, or from participating in this group of people in this organization, I get something from it beyond that, that that brings me motivation. One of the things I love to say in the tech world is most programmers will work for free. And most do work for free. They go to their job, and they're miserable, and they go home, and they work on side projects that are nonprofit work, or they work for some other organization that's doing something interesting because they get to work on challenging problems that are interested in them, right? So so it's really about finding those things that you can then bring into your work that that bring you that that satisfaction from the work itself, not necessarily from what you get from the work.
I like the way that is laid out if if I was a hiring manager, director or whatever I'm hiring, I would naturally gravitate to fit and culture and intrinsic motivator. And then of course, the skills I could always train to is, but those would be those are matters of the heart from my perspective. And I would, I would probably gravitate toward that. Let's say I'm an organization and our normal way of doing businesses I've got I got an HR I need a I need an individual to satisfy this particular role. I need these skills that that that that that that and I need to pay them x y or Z doesn't? Like, here's my scale, my salary range, right? Rarely. And I mean today, rarely do I talk about fit to culture, or my, the intrinsic motivators of these individuals. And I will not interview to that. How do you begin change in an organization? Because I think that, to me, is super important when I'm dealing with a workforce challenge out there, if I can, if I can work on those and get that down, I think I'm better positioned. How do I start that journey?
Sure. So we start them off by saying, what instead of saying, What do I what do I need something? What What skills does this person need? We say, what are they get to do? What is this person going to get to do? What are they going to get to work on? Right? And then what? Why does that mean anything to anybody? Right? What is what are they going to get to do for the next year? What are they gonna get to do for the next six months? And then why should anybody care? Right? What what what is it about that work that there is actually something interesting about and then it's, it's taking that and saying, Okay, that's where you're going to find something to sell to somebody else, instead of saying, I need somebody to come in that has these three hard skills, and they must have 10 years experience of doing this, and they must be able to take $20 an hour, we actually the way we write the we do we do our job descriptions, we say, here's what you're going to get to do. Right? Here's what's exciting about it. And what's going to happen is the people who would actually be excited to do that work, there's going to be some intrinsic motivator, they're going to they're going to look at that and say, oh, you know, that would be fun, that would be interesting, I would learn something about doing that. So you talk about the things that people get to do not about the demands that you're putting on them, you know, that that's what we tend to talk about, you must have, you must have, you must have instead of saying you get to you get to you get to. So it's really about shifting the mindset of the leadership team and the HR team, to start looking at the world in that lens. And it is hard, because we have been trained our entire lives to think, you know, efficiency and consistency and predictability and this mechanistic approach, we've been trained our whole lives to think that way. And you have to stop and step back and go, This isn't working anymore, we have to learn to think differently. So that's really where you start,
like, you get to.dot.in, your job description, I think that that's a great beginning, is there also a way of being able to say, Okay, you get to dot dot, dot, also dot, dot, dot, whatever it might be. Is there, is there an educational component that is also a part of that conversation? If you can't do if, if you don't meet these, but we'll train you that type of thing? Is that conversation out there?
It absolutely is. And we actually, you know, again, a lot of times when I'm hiring and hiring, I start with the problem that we solve, because it's like, at like the last company, I was an executive at we were in medical education. So we would talk about, hey, you're going to work in educating doctors. And what I was trying to do is attract people who maybe came from a family of doctors, or who maybe had a wife, who was a nurse, or a husband, who was a nurse or something along that line, you know, it's so you, I was looking for putting out in front of them, those things, but then I would say, and here are the types of things that we think you're going to need, and we're going to need, but that if you've got some of this other stuff, if you got some reason to want to be here, I would rather train you and help you come up to speed. If you're going to show up every day excited to be here, then we'll train you. And I Yes, we would absolutely build some of that in. And those would be some of the conversations that we would have, I would rather attract the 10 people who want to be there than 100 people who don't, right, and and so and then train those 10 people. So yeah, we would talk about some of those things, both in our job descriptions. And as in our early interviews, and some of those things to make sure that people understood that it was the want to be here was was often more important than the specific hard skills and you think tech, you think the hard skills attack, like you got to be able to program in this language, you gotta be able to do these kind of things, we would be pretty flexible sometimes with those if they had some intrinsic motivator that made them want to be there. So yeah.
In what sense, right, interesting is some of the feedback that I've received as a result of that say, Yeah, I bring them in, I train them to do whatever it is. And then of course, there are hotter commodity, because other companies are looking for that skill, too. And therefore leave but but the reality is, you if I can create a culture that that encourages people to stay, then there is a level of stickiness, and then I can train and then I don't have to really worry, yeah, they'll make your own decision. But I think that if you can create that culture that encourages them to stay, then your investment into what they're doing their education stays within the confines of your organization. Is that am I looking at that right?
No, you are and you got to you've got to it's not an issue that they quit then you got to go Why did they quit? Right? Why does what why was company be more attractive than us? Yeah, what were they doing differently and it's in a typically going to be more than two or $3 an hour more. Right? And maybe They didn't have a good relationship with their manager, because their manager didn't understand really how to be a good manager, right? People tend to quit managers, people quit teammates who don't follow a code of conduct, people, you know, quit and consistency or lack of clarity, right? So what are the things that cause that person to then want to take that training and go someplace else. And it's rarely about money, there's often about other things. So it's really, again, you've got to be honest with yourself, and you got to be willing to look in the mirror and look at your organization and say, what, what are we doing that we should be doing better? That would, that would help us keep these people
here, see, and you touch on something that's really important. And that is sort of the macro look at that culture. And that requires all your decision makers, your managers, the ones that are moving this company forward to be online, and you can't have it. And I would imagine, correct me if I'm wrong, Scott, if it doesn't take much for me to get pissed off, at some manager, doing something over here, even though I might have 20 managers over here that are great, that one manager is going to piss me off. And I'm going to leave. And it's so important to have everybody in line. I mean, it just is, especially in today's work environment.
It is it doesn't, it doesn't take much. I mean, we teach. So we teach two things that I think are really helpful. One, we teach what we call moments that matter. And that's that leadership happens in these small moments of interaction between people. And if in those moments, people get clarity, and motivation, and they're treated well and they feel they were treated fairly, then then they're typically happy with a company. But if in those moments, people get things they don't need, like confusion and doubt, or they're reprimanded in a way that they don't feel was fair, then often they're going to leave, but those small moments matter managers often don't even realize that they've done something that that kind of tripped up that person. So we actually end normally a delegation, or coaching problem solving, or if the employee has an idea, and they share it, and it's not received with any curiosity or like those little things that are so small, can really derail and take what is a great happy employee and force them to go look at companies. And it's about getting those
right, and that employees gonna leave that office or whatever it was and start chirping in the ears of other people within your organization. It is that quick, that's for sure. You said that two things, you got moments that matter which I like. And number two,
the second one is we actually teach a scorecard. So a lot of leaders a lot of leadership is confusing, because it is such a big topic. Right? People don't understand all the nooks and crannies, they don't understand that I've got to do A, B, C, D, and E, right. There's four goals of leadership that are kind of kind of conflicting. And then there's nine jobs that leaders have to do. And most leaders don't understand all four goals are the donor Central, not job. So we actually give them a map, it's essential that hey, I'm going to give you a map of New Orleans, like, you know, New Orleans or big city, right? Most people get to the airport, they don't understand everything you do. They look at a map. Same thing with leadership, there is no map of leadership, there wasn't. So we created one. So but what that map does is it gets all those leaders aware of all these little nooks and crannies and saying, You look, all of us have to be in lockstep around our culture and our values. All of us have to be in lockstep in challenging our team appropriately and building motivation and not doing things that damage motivation. We have to be lockstep in how we hire. And if you can get that, then you do get that consistency, and you see fewer problems. But yeah, if you do have one rogue manager who's trying to be helpful, but steps on somebody's toes in a way that really, you know, increased them, then then you can cause problems. So it is really about getting all those managers working well together from the same playbook in a complementary
way. And it's huge. I'm just telling you right now, it's huge. It's huge. Jay, one last question before we wrap it up. Yeah, can it can everybody be a leader?
So I think about 10% of people lack empathy, or emotional intelligence, they have some psychological or emotional challenge that prevents them from developing the empathy or emotional intelligence. The there's another 10% that are natural leaders, they just naturally kind of think about leadership in the right way. And the other 80% of us we can learn, right, but we have to learn but yes, that that there's 90% of people who absolutely can be effective as leaders if they want to be right that's the other piece of it is they really have to want to be for the right reasons. It's not about status, and getting more money and moving up the ranks and those kinds of things really got to truly be about we want to create a great place we want to solve problems when we want to work together it's they have to have the right attitude about it. But yeah, if they want if they want to do it and they want to shift their thinking and have that right attitude about thing Yeah, everybody in my opinion, except for about 10% can can grow and you can become really effective
leaders. That is an interesting, I like that cap off just because it what it tells me within an organization if you're running an organization, you're the head cheats, whatever that is, your leaders have got to be one train and on a common on the common roadmap, common whatever it might be, to be able to ensure that that everything that culture is nurtured and and move forward so that you don't piss people off can get aboard piss people off, especially your, your workforce and future leaders within your organization too. So not a part of that, too. All right, how do people get ahold of you, Scott? Yeah, best
thing to do is just go to jump coach comm again, that that assessment that scorecard we actually build a free tool around it so people can go and it's under our free tool section. And they can just click on that. And actually, it takes about 10 minutes go through the assessment. But let's go to show you're going to show your gaps. It's going to say, here's where you're doing well, and you're aware. And here here your gaps. So definitely, yes, stop by jump, Coach calm and take that assessment. If you're curious about it.
There it is. I'm out on your website right there. And I see leadership assessment, leadership, Q and A. All right. All very, very cool. Scott, you were absolutely wonderful. And I think that what has been provided great insights. Alright, manufacturers, all right, industry professionals. I think that this is a great key to deal with your workforce challenges out there. Yes, it's a journey. Don't say, Scott, it can't happen overnight. It can't. But you got to commit to it today. Today. No, yesterday. Let's put let's put a little urgency. Thank you, Scott, for being on industrial talk.
Hey, Scott, thanks so much for having me. I enjoyed it very much.
All right, listeners, we're gonna wrap it up on the other side, I'm going to have that link to also the free tool. So don't worry about that, as well as how to get ahold of Scott and the website, everything that you need to know. Right there ready to go. So stay tuned, we will be right back.
You're listening to the industrial talk Podcast Network.
Alright, again, thank you, Scott Drake, jump coach is the company. Leadership is definitely in thing, especially now when we start talking about digital transformation. We need leaders, we need it. Every every doggone problem that happens with implementation always gets down to Leadership, Culture, people, technology is just the technology. You know, just just keep that in mind. It's important. You'll have all the contact information at industrial talk.com. All right. Again, we've got IoT solutions World Congress, you got distribute tech, and we've got digital manufacturing summits in may put them on your calendar, and they're all out there too, as well. Now, the other thing finally, does that. Let's just Let's just be you know, let's just be frank. Sales is important. We need multi touch, make it happen. Let's figure out those processes that are necessary to make that happen. Simple. All right. All right. Be bold, be brave, dare greatly hang out with Scott will be bold, brave and daring greatly and you're gonna change the world. We're gonna have another great conversation shortly.
Transcript
Welcome to the industrial talk podcast with Scott Mackenzie. Scott is a passionate industry professional dedicated to transferring cutting edge industry focused innovations and trends while highlighting the men and women who keep the world moving. So put on your hard hat, grab your work boots, and let's get
to it. Hello there. Welcome to industrial talk, the number one industrial related podcast in the universe that celebrates industry heroes all around the world. Because you are bold, you are brave, you dare greatly. You're solving problems. You're innovating like nobody's business, and you're changing lives, and you are changing the world. And that's why we celebrate you here on industrial talk. All right, Scott, Drake is the gentleman in the hot seat. He is the founder and executive director of jump coach, and growing modern, agile leaders is the topic of conversation, let's get cracking. Leadership. So all of this innovation stuff that's happening out there, the number one, the number, and I mean, numero uno, reason why things do not succeed. So I always getting down to leaders and people and culture. It's always a human equation that impacts definitely impacts success and failure of whatever initiative you're you're working on. So that's Scott Drake right there. We'll have more to say about it. All right. Here's a couple of things. I want to make sure that you keep in your mind. Right. So I've been noodling on some things about marketing and sales. And I'm a big marketer, and I love sales and I, it's a, it's a passion of mine. But I want to throw this out for you. And it's stats. Everybody says, Hey, you got to sell with stats. Oh, so was stats here. Let's see what we got here. It was at, I was looking at it oh, here it is. Here it is. So, note this note this 45% of sales, people never follow up with the prospect 45% This is a stats and I I'm just sort of regurgitating the stats. 25% of salespeople make the second contact and stop. Okay, 12% just a measly 12% of salespeople make three contacts and stop and only 10% Go beyond the three contacts. But here's the real reason why you want to multi contact, multi touch is that 2% of sales happen to only two with the first contact, okay, we're an industry we're selling, we're doing a lot of things with, with innovation, these are big, big challenges, and I don't think you're going to be able to, you know, meet one time at boomin. The, the deal is cut 3% of the sales made. On the second contact 5% of the sales made is on the third contact 10% On the fourth contact. But here's the real clicker. 80% of the sales are made on the fifth and 12th contact, fifth through 12. Contact. That's a lot. So my question to you is what type of mechanisms do you have in place that adds value every time you're making contact, and you can add its multi contact? Because clearly, your sales will truly benefit if you have a mechanism to be able to constantly and revolving around those contacts and adding value. You know why? Why do they want to listen, you better add value, you better add value to what they are doing. The other thing is,
it's a little quote, it's just a teeny little quote, the fortunes are in the follow up. How about that is true? I don't think you can deny that. So if I was running sales, which I've had I've done in the past, or marketing, which I've done in the past, or running companies, which I've done in the past, is I want a multi touch, multi connection process that adds value every time. Not to me not to my company, but to them. Am I solving their problems? Right? That contact that solves the problem. You know, that to me is where it's at and do you have that funnel in place? I just throw it out. I'm gonna continue to harp on that just because I think it's so important for your success. It's important for mine, Guy No, I do I have multi contact, you know, all right, couple of events that you need to put on your calendar. But I'm broadcasting from these events, which is pretty cool. And I'm excited about broadcasting from these events. And the reason I'm excited is because it sort of feels like normal, right? Feels like normal things are, you know, sort of, it just feels good, right? And and I get to broadcast I'm very fortunate to broadcast and connect with people, and have a great time, and have meaning and purpose in these connections. The first event is the IoT solutions, World Congress, this is in Barcelona, if you have to go to if you have to go to Europe, I guess Barcelona would be the place to go, this is the 10th through the 12th of May, right around the corner. I'm excited about it. And this is a unique event, because they really work on providing real solutions to your challenges and your goodness, you get to sit there and talk to people that have the solutions. And it's a worthwhile event. It'll be my third time there. And I've been very, very, very, very fortunate to be able to do that. That's IoT solutions, World Congress 10, to the 12th. The other one is distribute tech, this is May 23rd, to the 25th. This is in Dallas, Texas. And it is really sort of the premier event, we're broadcasting there to premier event that features a lot of the utility generation solutions that that are needed to bring this whole utility industry moving forward. Distribute tech, so I'll be broadcasting there. So you know, be on the lookout of that. And then another one, finally, this is sort of a smaller one, but very focused on digital manufacturing Summit. This is that's what's called digital manufacturing Summit, and that's made 19th And that is in Chicago. And again, there's some there's some great things that are taking place, we've got to consider to have that digital mindset. But there are a lot of components associated with you. And that success, just f y i It's important. We haven't even touched upon cybersecurity, I mean, you touched upon a lot of the elements. And so we're going to have to start painting that picture of that holistic look at digital transformation, finding trusted members of your team to be able to make that happen, because the reality is, you're going to have to do it. If you're a manufacturing, you got to do it. So find somebody that you truly trust, work with them move forward. There are a lot of things being discussed out here. Now finally, I've got to Mike, I call them micro micro webinars. And the reason I was micro I, I gotta be truthful with you, I'm impatient. I always want to move fast. And I do struggle with something that lasts longer than an hour, right? It's just, you know, as my wife has my kids, they'll concur. But the reality is, is that we have to have, we have to have consistent, more, I say, micro webinars focused on real challenges. So I'm working on one that is called utility maintenance. There's a lot of stuff that's happening out there in the world of utilities. And this is like a No BS approach obtainment time and money. That's one. So be on the lookout for that. And another one is manufacturing, we're still sort of figuring out what that title might be. But there's a ton of options. But this is the ability to react to look at and and really ask, you know, if you're not traveling around, whatever, ask leaders that have questions that are you're struggling with. And then and then it'll be out there and it'll be evergreen, and you can follow up. And so you know, here at industrial talk, we just want you to be a success, how's that? We do. We're going to provide everything that we could possibly do and then some if you want to connect with them. That's what we're all about that those are micro webinars, one in utility maintenance, and the other one in manufacturing. And we got a lot more scheduled. All right.
On to the interview, Scott Drake. Now I've been a little remiss because Scott and I had a conversation some months back and I'm finally getting around, but he knows what he's talking about. And for a guy like me, who tends to be a little impatient. This is write down my just ate I ate it up. It's like growing modern and agile leaders in weeks, weeks. I'm all in. I need leadership. Yes. Not years, helping scaling organizations grow leadership teams. How can you argue with that? That's got Drake, jump coach is the organization. Enjoy the conversation. Scott, welcome to industrial talk. Thank you very much for finding time in your busy schedule to talk to the iron Have to say the best listeners around the world. How're you doing today? I'm good, Scott, how you doing today? Thank you for asking. I'm doing well. I'm telling you listeners, we're gonna have a great conversation. And it's about leadership, but it's about a topic that is near and dear to my heart and for many manufacturers, many in industry is, what do we do? How do we, how do we build up a workforce that is engaged, that wants to be there, and we're just, it's a topic that's got to happen. It's just got to happen. Alright, Scott, before we get into the conversation, give us a little background on who you are, and why you're such an incredible professional.
Well, thanks, God. Yeah, so yeah, my name is Kendrick, I'm an executive director of a company called Jump coach. And my background is in tech, I kind of came up through the ranks in tech, I spent some time early my career at Microsoft, and then some time down into Silicon Valley, getting into leadership, and then making all the mistakes in leadership, and learning a lot of lessons in leadership. And as as I moved up the ranks, I started seeing the leaders behind me making all the same mistakes that I had made. And I thought there's got to be a better way to grow leaders who really know how to build engage teams, and who really know how to work together as a team. So, so I sat down on a research project, and, and built some tools, and in earlier this year, have embarked on this, and I'm gonna make this the next 1015 years of my journey is to really say how do we how do we get the leaders in place that, that can really build the companies that we need in the future?
Yeah, we have COVID, we have the pandemic. And I, and one of the observations that I had with this pandemic, outside of the fact that pre pandemic, I thought we were bringing our C and B game to the table, but now I have to bring the a game, but it also highlighted leadership weakness, you know, either you are a good leader and being able to navigate the waters of this pandemic, or you are struggling as a leader to try to figure out how to navigate these waters of this, this pandemic. But, you know, neither here nor there, we're here. So let's talk about workforce. One of the areas that many within manufacturing many within industry is they're having a hard time, and they're having a big time, hard time finding people finding a workforce that is engaged, that is necessary to keep their doors open, to keep their legacy of whatever their businesses and and, and keep them in the door, keep creating sort of a stickiness. Let's talk a little bit about that. Those are the challenges. Let's talk a little bit about four factor hiring, which is interesting to me, give us a little background on what that means.
Yeah, so four factor hiring is, is basically, you, when you get hiring, right, it's a magic, right? You know, the people are engaged, they want to be there, they do a great job, they show up prepared to work, but when you get it wrong, like it can really be damaging. And you can do a lot of problems that all industry are dealing with a turnover, or people who don't do good work or don't care are they, you know, give poor customer service and some of those things. So what we found it again, I come into the tech world, and we kind of been dealing with a lot of the problems that other sectors are starting to deal with. Now, we've been dealing with this stuff for 2025 years. And what we've found in tech, oh, what I found is that when I would hire for, hey, I need somebody who has this particular skill, and somebody who will take the pay that I can offer them and is happy with the perks that I can put in front of them, then that person might show up, but they're really often not going to be a good employee. And they may quit in six months. And they may drive me crazy as a manager because I'm having to try to coach them all the behaviors that I want them to do and coach out of the behaviors I want them to not do, right. So four factor basically says look you've got what are the skills? What are the extrinsic motivators, the pay and the perks that you put in front of somebody. Then the third part is that fifth piece, which is to say, what behaviors what code of conduct does this person need to naturally exhibit? And then the fourth piece is really, why does this why will this person be motivated? Right? What is it about my organization that we can provide this person that's going to bring intrinsic motivation, and have that person show up every day excited to be there? And we have to hire for that, right? We can't just assume that every organization is same different organizations gonna find different things within these intrinsic motivators to, to bring the right people in place. So it's really about hiring for all four of those and then managing for all four of those is what we help companies do.
But I gotta tell you, I'm desperate. Manufacture I'm desperate. I need people I need bodies, and it doesn't sound sexy. But I need bodies. I need people to fill roles. And it's almost like, is it better to to identify the skills, take your time, identify the skills, but to really identify number three that fit that individual that fits the culture. Is it better for that? I I don't know. I don't have an answer. All I know is I need people and I'm somewhat desperate. Is it better to look at that and then teach to it. What what? What's your thinking on that?
So it depends. I mean, there's no one right answer, I think different people can find different success in different places. But we really sit down and we got to start asking why do people want to be here? Right? It pay is not enough, right? I can pay them $15 An hour or $20 an hour or $40 an hour pay is not going to get people to show up with their hearts and minds, right? There's got to be something else. And those something else is tend to be your code of conduct. And some of those things are they tend to be your purpose? Why do you exist? What are the types of products maybe that you're, that you're creating, and the services that you're offering that those have a meaning to somebody, right, what you're doing your work has meaning to somebody else. And in that work, you can put some purpose, or it may be growth, like, I'm going to show up, and I'm going to give my best for the next two or three years, because I'm going to grow, and I'm going to be a better person when I come out the other side of it. So there's got to be something else there. And it's really in being honest with yourself as a business leader, and saying, What are we offering these people beyond the pay in the parks, that is really where you're going to find the solutions to some of these
problems? You know, it's interesting, because I don't think we cover purpose. Enough. I don't think that industry as a whole, under, they might say, Hey, this is our mission statement. This is our values, whatever, this is our vision. But really, when we start talking about purpose, what, what does that mean, from your perspective telescope?
From my perspective, it is why do I want to show up every day and give my heart and soul to this, and it's not going to be for X dollars an hour, right? And it may be for my team, it may be that I show up every day, and do my best and give my best because I'm part of this team. And maybe because of the problems that we solve and the people that we get to help. There's different things that you can build a purpose around it, it's not always some aspiration, or some big, you know, the fuzzy thing, it's often some very concrete things. I know there's one, one store, I can't remember where I heard about, like there was a roofing company that they decided to make their purpose, giving ex cons a second chance, right. So all of a sudden, this organization has something beyond just being another roofing contractor that everybody's just just price shopping on. And they built something else around this business to say, we have a purpose beyond just that. And that's what attracted a lot of people and a lot of the problems that that company that industry sees as a whole, that company no longer saw because they built something else around what they were doing. That's the kind of thing that you can build purposes around.
Yeah, and I see that if I me, if I had a desire to build a business of resilience, I would want to make sure that everybody is rowing in the same direction on the boat. And that, to me is a focus on on purpose and why we're here and what what is the ultimate goal and challenge and and we're all just motivated to do that. And and Is it is it better for me and I looked at the four factors, you've got skills, you're looking at skills, you're looking at motivators fit culture, and intrinsic motivators. How's that different number two, and number four differ from each other.
So intrinsic motivators are the things that are paying perks are things external to me, right? They're not things necessarily control, they're not only things that I feel, right, they're things that I get, and getting things is only going to motivate me so far. And it hits a point where you get these intrinsic motivation, which is I'm going to do this because it's interesting for me, right, there's something in it, that I get some reward that is either intellectual or emotional. From doing this work, or from participating in this group of people in this organization, I get something from it beyond that, that that brings me motivation. One of the things I love to say in the tech world is most programmers will work for free. And most do work for free. They go to their job, and they're miserable, and they go home, and they work on side projects that are nonprofit work, or they work for some other organization that's doing something interesting because they get to work on challenging problems that are interested in them, right? So so it's really about finding those things that you can then bring into your work that that bring you that that satisfaction from the work itself, not necessarily from what you get from the work.
I like the way that is laid out if if I was a hiring manager, director or whatever I'm hiring, I would naturally gravitate to fit and culture and intrinsic motivator. And then of course, the skills I could always train to is, but those would be those are matters of the heart from my perspective. And I would, I would probably gravitate toward that. Let's say I'm an organization and our normal way of doing businesses I've got I got an HR I need a I need an individual to satisfy this particular role. I need these skills that that that that that that and I need to pay them x y or Z doesn't? Like, here's my scale, my salary range, right? Rarely. And I mean today, rarely do I talk about fit to culture, or my, the intrinsic motivators of these individuals. And I will not interview to that. How do you begin change in an organization? Because I think that, to me, is super important when I'm dealing with a workforce challenge out there, if I can, if I can work on those and get that down, I think I'm better positioned. How do I start that journey?
Sure. So we start them off by saying, what instead of saying, What do I what do I need something? What What skills does this person need? We say, what are they get to do? What is this person going to get to do? What are they going to get to work on? Right? And then what? Why does that mean anything to anybody? Right? What is what are they going to get to do for the next year? What are they gonna get to do for the next six months? And then why should anybody care? Right? What what what is it about that work that there is actually something interesting about and then it's, it's taking that and saying, Okay, that's where you're going to find something to sell to somebody else, instead of saying, I need somebody to come in that has these three hard skills, and they must have 10 years experience of doing this, and they must be able to take $20 an hour, we actually the way we write the we do we do our job descriptions, we say, here's what you're going to get to do. Right? Here's what's exciting about it. And what's going to happen is the people who would actually be excited to do that work, there's going to be some intrinsic motivator, they're going to they're going to look at that and say, oh, you know, that would be fun, that would be interesting, I would learn something about doing that. So you talk about the things that people get to do not about the demands that you're putting on them, you know, that that's what we tend to talk about, you must have, you must have, you must have instead of saying you get to you get to you get to. So it's really about shifting the mindset of the leadership team and the HR team, to start looking at the world in that lens. And it is hard, because we have been trained our entire lives to think, you know, efficiency and consistency and predictability and this mechanistic approach, we've been trained our whole lives to think that way. And you have to stop and step back and go, This isn't working anymore, we have to learn to think differently. So that's really where you start,
like, you get to.dot.in, your job description, I think that that's a great beginning, is there also a way of being able to say, Okay, you get to dot dot, dot, also dot, dot, dot, whatever it might be. Is there, is there an educational component that is also a part of that conversation? If you can't do if, if you don't meet these, but we'll train you that type of thing? Is that conversation out there?
It absolutely is. And we actually, you know, again, a lot of times when I'm hiring and hiring, I start with the problem that we solve, because it's like, at like the last company, I was an executive at we were in medical education. So we would talk about, hey, you're going to work in educating doctors. And what I was trying to do is attract people who maybe came from a family of doctors, or who maybe had a wife, who was a nurse, or a husband, who was a nurse or something along that line, you know, it's so you, I was looking for putting out in front of them, those things, but then I would say, and here are the types of things that we think you're going to need, and we're going to need, but that if you've got some of this other stuff, if you got some reason to want to be here, I would rather train you and help you come up to speed. If you're going to show up every day excited to be here, then we'll train you. And I Yes, we would absolutely build some of that in. And those would be some of the conversations that we would have, I would rather attract the 10 people who want to be there than 100 people who don't, right, and and so and then train those 10 people. So yeah, we would talk about some of those things, both in our job descriptions. And as in our early interviews, and some of those things to make sure that people understood that it was the want to be here was was often more important than the specific hard skills and you think tech, you think the hard skills attack, like you got to be able to program in this language, you gotta be able to do these kind of things, we would be pretty flexible sometimes with those if they had some intrinsic motivator that made them want to be there. So yeah.
In what sense, right, interesting is some of the feedback that I've received as a result of that say, Yeah, I bring them in, I train them to do whatever it is. And then of course, there are hotter commodity, because other companies are looking for that skill, too. And therefore leave but but the reality is, you if I can create a culture that that encourages people to stay, then there is a level of stickiness, and then I can train and then I don't have to really worry, yeah, they'll make your own decision. But I think that if you can create that culture that encourages them to stay, then your investment into what they're doing their education stays within the confines of your organization. Is that am I looking at that right?
No, you are and you got to you've got to it's not an issue that they quit then you got to go Why did they quit? Right? Why does what why was company be more attractive than us? Yeah, what were they doing differently and it's in a typically going to be more than two or $3 an hour more. Right? And maybe They didn't have a good relationship with their manager, because their manager didn't understand really how to be a good manager, right? People tend to quit managers, people quit teammates who don't follow a code of conduct, people, you know, quit and consistency or lack of clarity, right? So what are the things that cause that person to then want to take that training and go someplace else. And it's rarely about money, there's often about other things. So it's really, again, you've got to be honest with yourself, and you got to be willing to look in the mirror and look at your organization and say, what, what are we doing that we should be doing better? That would, that would help us keep these people
here, see, and you touch on something that's really important. And that is sort of the macro look at that culture. And that requires all your decision makers, your managers, the ones that are moving this company forward to be online, and you can't have it. And I would imagine, correct me if I'm wrong, Scott, if it doesn't take much for me to get pissed off, at some manager, doing something over here, even though I might have 20 managers over here that are great, that one manager is going to piss me off. And I'm going to leave. And it's so important to have everybody in line. I mean, it just is, especially in today's work environment.
It is it doesn't, it doesn't take much. I mean, we teach. So we teach two things that I think are really helpful. One, we teach what we call moments that matter. And that's that leadership happens in these small moments of interaction between people. And if in those moments, people get clarity, and motivation, and they're treated well and they feel they were treated fairly, then then they're typically happy with a company. But if in those moments, people get things they don't need, like confusion and doubt, or they're reprimanded in a way that they don't feel was fair, then often they're going to leave, but those small moments matter managers often don't even realize that they've done something that that kind of tripped up that person. So we actually end normally a delegation, or coaching problem solving, or if the employee has an idea, and they share it, and it's not received with any curiosity or like those little things that are so small, can really derail and take what is a great happy employee and force them to go look at companies. And it's about getting those
right, and that employees gonna leave that office or whatever it was and start chirping in the ears of other people within your organization. It is that quick, that's for sure. You said that two things, you got moments that matter which I like. And number two,
the second one is we actually teach a scorecard. So a lot of leaders a lot of leadership is confusing, because it is such a big topic. Right? People don't understand all the nooks and crannies, they don't understand that I've got to do A, B, C, D, and E, right. There's four goals of leadership that are kind of kind of conflicting. And then there's nine jobs that leaders have to do. And most leaders don't understand all four goals are the donor Central, not job. So we actually give them a map, it's essential that hey, I'm going to give you a map of New Orleans, like, you know, New Orleans or big city, right? Most people get to the airport, they don't understand everything you do. They look at a map. Same thing with leadership, there is no map of leadership, there wasn't. So we created one. So but what that map does is it gets all those leaders aware of all these little nooks and crannies and saying, You look, all of us have to be in lockstep around our culture and our values. All of us have to be in lockstep in challenging our team appropriately and building motivation and not doing things that damage motivation. We have to be lockstep in how we hire. And if you can get that, then you do get that consistency, and you see fewer problems. But yeah, if you do have one rogue manager who's trying to be helpful, but steps on somebody's toes in a way that really, you know, increased them, then then you can cause problems. So it is really about getting all those managers working well together from the same playbook in a complementary
way. And it's huge. I'm just telling you right now, it's huge. It's huge. Jay, one last question before we wrap it up. Yeah, can it can everybody be a leader?
So I think about 10% of people lack empathy, or emotional intelligence, they have some psychological or emotional challenge that prevents them from developing the empathy or emotional intelligence. The there's another 10% that are natural leaders, they just naturally kind of think about leadership in the right way. And the other 80% of us we can learn, right, but we have to learn but yes, that that there's 90% of people who absolutely can be effective as leaders if they want to be right that's the other piece of it is they really have to want to be for the right reasons. It's not about status, and getting more money and moving up the ranks and those kinds of things really got to truly be about we want to create a great place we want to solve problems when we want to work together it's they have to have the right attitude about it. But yeah, if they want if they want to do it and they want to shift their thinking and have that right attitude about thing Yeah, everybody in my opinion, except for about 10% can can grow and you can become really effective
leaders. That is an interesting, I like that cap off just because it what it tells me within an organization if you're running an organization, you're the head cheats, whatever that is, your leaders have got to be one train and on a common on the common roadmap, common whatever it might be, to be able to ensure that that everything that culture is nurtured and and move forward so that you don't piss people off can get aboard piss people off, especially your, your workforce and future leaders within your organization too. So not a part of that, too. All right, how do people get ahold of you, Scott? Yeah, best
thing to do is just go to jump coach comm again, that that assessment that scorecard we actually build a free tool around it so people can go and it's under our free tool section. And they can just click on that. And actually, it takes about 10 minutes go through the assessment. But let's go to show you're going to show your gaps. It's going to say, here's where you're doing well, and you're aware. And here here your gaps. So definitely, yes, stop by jump, Coach calm and take that assessment. If you're curious about it.
There it is. I'm out on your website right there. And I see leadership assessment, leadership, Q and A. All right. All very, very cool. Scott, you were absolutely wonderful. And I think that what has been provided great insights. Alright, manufacturers, all right, industry professionals. I think that this is a great key to deal with your workforce challenges out there. Yes, it's a journey. Don't say, Scott, it can't happen overnight. It can't. But you got to commit to it today. Today. No, yesterday. Let's put let's put a little urgency. Thank you, Scott, for being on industrial talk.
Hey, Scott, thanks so much for having me. I enjoyed it very much.
All right, listeners, we're gonna wrap it up on the other side, I'm going to have that link to also the free tool. So don't worry about that, as well as how to get ahold of Scott and the website, everything that you need to know. Right there ready to go. So stay tuned, we will be right back.
You're listening to the industrial talk Podcast Network.
Alright, again, thank you, Scott Drake, jump coach is the company. Leadership is definitely in thing, especially now when we start talking about digital transformation. We need leaders, we need it. Every every doggone problem that happens with implementation always gets down to Leadership, Culture, people, technology is just the technology. You know, just just keep that in mind. It's important. You'll have all the contact information at industrial talk.com. All right. Again, we've got IoT solutions World Congress, you got distribute tech, and we've got digital manufacturing summits in may put them on your calendar, and they're all out there too, as well. Now, the other thing finally, does that. Let's just Let's just be you know, let's just be frank. Sales is important. We need multi touch, make it happen. Let's figure out those processes that are necessary to make that happen. Simple. All right. All right. Be bold, be brave, dare greatly hang out with Scott will be bold, brave and daring greatly and you're gonna change the world. We're gonna have another great conversation shortly.
About the author, Scott
I am Scott MacKenzie, husband, father, and passionate industry educator. From humble beginnings as a lathing contractor and certified journeyman/lineman to an Undergraduate and Master’s Degree in Business Administration, I have applied every aspect of my education and training to lead and influence. I believe in serving and adding value wherever I am called.
