Industrial Talk is onsite at the OMG Quarterly Standards Meeting and chatting with Claude Baudoin, Executive Consultant at cebe, IT and Knowledge Management about “Opening markets by providing industry with trustworthy standards”. Tune in and hear more about the importance of the latest in market creation and Claude's unique insights on this Industrial Talk.
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Company Website: https://cebe-itkm.com/
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people, omg, standards, ai, claude, gpt, define, model, industry, modeling, data, put, case, debating, language, years, cloud, chat, processes,
Welcome to the industrial talk podcast with Scott Mackenzie. Scott is a passionate industry professional dedicated to transferring cutting edge industry focused innovations and trends while highlighting the men and women who keep the world moving. So put on your hard hat, grab your work boots. And let's
all right, once again, thank you very much for joining us real talk the platform that celebrates into industry professionals all around the world, because you are bold, brave, and you dare greatly. You're changing lives and you are changing the world. Thank you very much for your support, because we are on a mission to elevate industry professionals to the right level. And they are heroes in this particular podcast. And we also are broadcasting from OMG Q1 Right here in Reston, Virginia. And it is once again the members of OMG, and digital twin and all of the other consortiums and then some are all passionate about solving problems. And they're debating right behind these doors or debating certain standards and they just make our lives better. So give them a big How do you do and go out to omg.org? Find out more you will not be disappointed in the hot seat plot. Seve did I get the right set it
is it is sabe a and is Claude boudoir it a knowledge management.
I like that. And so yeah, there you go check it out, man. Now I got it. I like it. You had a good meeting?
Yeah, it's actually we've already had several sessions. It's not finished. Obviously, we're here until Friday noon, it's only Tuesday evening. There's lots of things going on. We're debating stuff. It's a kind of standards we could potentially developed to help industry in areas like business modeling and artificial intelligence and cloud computing.
How long have you been a part of this organization?
I actually was at my first OMG meeting, I think in Orlando, Florida in December 1992. So it's just over, just over 34. I have not been at all the meetings between me in those 30 years, but I'm probably approaching my hundreds OMG meet. Man, I've seen every legend. I've seen everything from the early development of CORBA to the development of UML. I remember though, I remember the year when people were telling me that it was too early to create a standard for object modeling. And then the next year, they were huddled in a room in San Jose, California doing a standard for object modeling.
Hey, gosh, you legend. The stories I could tell you oh, I can only imagine I you know what's interesting as as, as I continue to be to work with OMG and, and engage many of the members of what I found, was that a sincere appreciation for what the members and everybody does they do here right? And and, you know, I have strengths and weaknesses. One of my weaknesses is I can't do what you guys do, and be able to get into that level of detail on on a standard and debate it and hear it and really ferret it out. So when when you come out with something, you launch something, you you publish something, there's a high level of competence that it has been thoroughly vetted,
this tranx that a lot of people have and a lot of people here have it even more than me is their technical competence and their experience, the weakness we have is that once we get embroiled in this and involved in this weekend stops. So some of us are essentially almost donating our time to this cause of creating standards for industry. Regardless whether we're being paid this month or not, or whether we traveled on our airtime or in our air miles or not, you know, we do it because we feel that it is free to enable industry to do sales.
Oh, that's noble. That's I gotta tell you that's, that's, that's special.
So our former chairman, Richard soli. Well, yeah, that you whom, you know, used to say, we're not here to create standards. We're here to create markets. And the markets are in the markets by the companies that make software tools to develop models and systems. And in order for them to be successful in the market. They need standards so that they don't have to develop a different program for every client.
You Yeah, again, I see the value of it. I just do I think that that there's an efficiency there. And there's a there's a commonality there's a common lexicon, I don't have to have a digital twin as digital twin over here at digital twin because they've you've created that that commonality
when we create the artificial intelligent Task Force, which is one of the ones I lead. I put, I use the words reduce friction. I said we're gonna use the friction for the software developers and for the users by defining some common formats, common language, maybe a common ontology. This afternoon, we were talking about a common taxonomy of trustworthiness in AI. So that's the kind of work we do.
Boy, do I have some questions about AI?
Everyone has, you should ask Chad GPT maybe it would answer you.
Because Thank goodness for Chat GPT because it boy is he has put a laser beam focus on AI and where it's going yet it's been around but but for whatever reason, Chat GPT, boom,
I think it's because people suddenly develop those large language models, and they were able to suck in millions of documents, I don't check GPT does is create a reasonable synthesis of what it has learned from those documents. And it has the ability to put it in very correct, compelling almost English, or French or Spanish or whatever. And that has value. The problem is when people ask Chad GPU stupid questions, they'll get stupid answers. Yeah. And we need to recognize that we need to use Cheju PT, for what it's good not force. Stupid things. Yeah, but
but then again, everything that revolves around AI, and I'll just use it from a macro perspective, because there's always, there's always exceptions. There has to be an organization like yours and others, especially here, that creates sort of boundaries, I think, or, you know,
we've got to define scopes. I was talking earlier today to people from NIST National Institutes of Science Standards and Technology, and a lady from UC Berkeley from the Center for longterm cybersecurity who's done a wonderful paper recently, that links the risk management framework of NIST to the notion of trustworthiness. And we were precisely discussing scope issue, where do you define the scope so that it is tractable? Because if you don't define the scope, well, you're going to try to boil the ocean, you're going to try to define the ontology of everything. And people have been trying to define the ontology of everything since Socrates and Plato, and no one has succeeded. So why would we? So let's be honest with our capabilities, let's define one particular area like risk and trustworthiness. Let's model that. And then we can define something else, like, you know, the issue of data quality in industrial systems, and do models for that. And then there's going to be a connection somewhere maybe about safety. is a system trustworthy? Because it's safe? And is it safe? Because it gets correct data from the sensor? Yeah, that's, that's how we need to think about that, I think.
But we're still at the beginning of it. I mean, there's still so there's so much that that's that. I, how, when you were here, you're here. You know, when you're here, here, here, you're here. What? What's your focus here at? Oh,
so I have three things. Because again, as I said, you know, once you get involved in this, you can't you have starts asking more, people start asking more and you forget, you forget that the word no existence, you know, you can't because so what I've heard is the business modeling and integration domain Taskforce, we are the owners or the custodians, I should say, of the Business Process Modeling Language, BPM n, which is really widely recognized as the methodological way of defining processes and workflows. So that's one thing we do. But there's an entire family of other standards. There's things to model, what people in the healthcare industry called cases, a case is something that's somewhat unpredictable. Someone comes into the emergency room, and you have a bunch of data, you have a bunch of processes that you can invoke, but what is it what are you going to do first? Are you going to are you going to start applying a tourniquet, or are you going to do an EKG. So you can define the process in advance when the person comes in, there's not something that they do A then B, then C, it says, look at all the data you have and decide dynamically what you're going to do. So that's a different modeling language for that. It's called CMM. N case model, the case modeling, notation, case management model and notation, sorry,
don't worry about it. I wasn't taking any notes on I was like, I'm just dazzled.
And then then the people in the healthcare industry have created this community called the BPM plus healthcare community where BPM plus means business process management plus case management plus decision management, etc. In order to standardize the course of actions taken in institutions like the VA hospitals, so that when someone moves from one location to another and resume care with a different provider at a different hospitals, the same clinical procedures are going to be followed to provide continuity of care. So that's something that our standards enable. So when you think of Oh, well, mg is doing this esoteric stuff to model processes. But it's impacting how veterans are being treated in veteran hospitals around the country.
I just, I'm always dazzled.
So that's one thing. That's one thing I do. Another thing I do, as I mentioned, there is a an AI taskforce that started about three years ago. And we're still in our infancy, we're still deciding what these things could do. But there's different languages that are used in there, there's different models. There's all these libraries of image files that tell you, this is a dog, this is a cat, you know, and it helps the AI learn how to recognize cats and dogs in future pictures they haven't seen before. Well, the language is used to describe those files. And the bounding box within which there is a dog or a cat or, or a fire hydrant, is often a delegate to a fire hydrant to get
absolutely common. There's multiple
such languages, and they're not standardized. So if you're a company developing an AI, and you get stuck, you get two training files from two different sources, they're not going to be in the same format, you're going to struggle, you're going to often people say we spend 20%, doing AI and we spend 80%, massaging the data so that the AI can understand it. So what if there was a standard that says this is the standard format for file that tells you what objects are in the image, then everyone would stop spending 80% of their time massaging the data before they can do their AI work? So that's one of the things we're trying to pursue,
I have to ask the question in this is two of three. So I'm not forgetting the third one, trust me. Is that right off the bat. The bandwidth, just just time. And time is like the the the great equalizer in this innovation, technology speeding, it just seems like it's maybe because I'm I talk about it all the time. But it just seems like there's a dog on velocity that I can't keep up with. And, and yet you and others are working diligently. I just it's like the pinch point is time.
Yeah, absolutely. And I find that there are things that I handle very thoroughly. There are other things I have to skim. And there's unfortunately things that I have to not pursue just because I don't have the time. But I think one of the tricks, to me at least, is really being voraciously, open to receiving input from whatever it is. So I can see a snippet of information that I get on Flipboard on my phone one evening, or I can have a conversation at lunch with someone very briefly. And I just tried to make sure I don't lose any of that. And later on, it comes back. And I can I can reuse it. Someone yesterday on LinkedIn was asking me, do you know someone I could talk to about bringing data back from offshore to onshore through satellite in the oilfield industry. I am and I I know someone because I talked to them. And I looked at my computer last night and I found my notes from December 2019. Having had a conversation with that person, you've got to have a huge, a huge capability to retain information, yeah, to index it. And then you can regurgitate it to people in meetings like this, or in normal interactions with people. All right. It was just an example. But I mean, this happens to me all the time is because there's
people that are interested in knowing what's going on. I mean, they're trying, they're searching for an answer. And they don't, if they don't want to recreate the wheel, they there's got to be a way of being a mate,
that either too many people who will recreate the wheel. And that's that is why the standards are such a challenging area. In some cases, there was a cartoon once I think it's an XKCD cartoon from the ex NASA guy who does XKCD where the first panel says, we have 14 standards for this. This is too many we how can we deal with that. And then the second panel says let's create another standard to unify them all. And then the third panel says Well, now we have 15 different standards.
very truthful, by the way. Number three, give us a number three that your AI and you had one other organization. So
the other organization is the cloud working group. So it started as the clouds Standards Customer Council CSEC was IBM sponsorship in April 2011. And it published something called the Practical Guide to cloud computing. And we've continued since then in eighth 2018. So almost five years ago, it became really part of OMG as the cloud working group we've published about 34 different guides and papers, how to migrate to the cloud, how to adopt it, how to check that your provider is giving you a good service level agreement, how to do interoperability portability, how to worry where your data is located, you know, it's 10pm, do you know where your data is? Oh, yeah, absolutely, et cetera, et cetera. So we we do this work regularly. Right now. I've started working on a paper. I'm leading that but I have six co authors, five humans and Chad GPT. On myths, myths and realities of cloud computing, so I asked Chad GPT, please tell me what are common myths about computing? And it gave me a pretty reasonable answer. So I enrolled it as one of my co authors. And we're trying That's clever. We're trying to tell people how to see through the marketing speak of the providers and not be, you know, taken by some of the exaggerations, but we're also trying to dispel the Fudd the fear, uncertainty and doubt, because there are people who are rejecting the cloud for the wrong reasons.
But that's a that's a, that's an ongoing, you know, you, you have to constantly, there's an education gap.
That's why I can't retire. That's right.
You have hair, it looked great. Why retire? Why retire? What are you going to do when you retire?
Oh, there's, you know, I often joke with people here, if, if I want to do some thing, interesting for free, I have plenty of charities, I can work I was
just gonna say. But what's true, what are you gonna do? There's no way you can retire,
oh, I can work on my genealogy, which goes back to the late 1500s At this point, okay. I can classify my 3000 slides that I have never scanned.
No. And then somebody's going to come to you and say, Hey, I've got this thing. And so I did the Polaroid back end, or for
12 and a half years, I published a newsletter twice, twice a month. So there's 300 issues, and then I finally stopped. But I'm gonna mind this and find what are the things that have shelf life, some of these have no longer are no longer interesting. But there's a few that I have some that I've held up, and I'm going to compile them and put that on a wiki and new things like that. All right,
one last question. On that sizeable list there with three things? Did we cover everything? Or do we need to cover something else that it was a gap? And I want to make sure that you give your Do you know,
no, I mean, the only other thing I had, you know, is like I was thinking, what would be the conclusion to this, what would be my message, you know, there's no end there. And there's a large scope of work, that that still needs to be done about business models about AI models about managing data about managing processes. And people should come and talk to us and offer their wisdom and their experience.
I look at it this way. And I'll be the first to admit this, that the world is moving. And and at a minimum you need you need to actively seek out at least how to get involved. small, large, mid doesn't matter.
No contribution is useless.
See, there you go. Right there. I'm going to put that on a bumper sticker. And I'm going to just put your name below it. All right. How do they get a hold of you?
You can email me at firstname.lastname@example.org. That's the simplest address. My professional address is different. But since we're at OMG, here use Claude CL, AUD email@example.com. That will be the best way.
I like it. I like it a lot. You are absolutely spectacular. Thank you, sir. Heavy heck out of that conversation. And it was good for me. I like it. All right. All right, listeners. We're gonna wrap it up on the other side, we're gonna have all the contact information for Claude and then some, you need to be reaching out to omg.org You need to be reaching out to Claude, it is important, because you need to participate. And you need to know what's going on. And you get great, big hearted people wanting to help you. So that's a great place, trust them. So we're gonna wrap it up on the inside. Stay tuned, we will be right back.
You're listening to the industrial talk Podcast Network.
You know what I'm thankful for. I'm thankful for Claude. I'm thankful for people like Claude. I'm thankful for OMG and the consortiums because they debate the standards, they create these standards, so that we can create new markets for industry to do more. It's it's truly a noble endeavor, and I am truly appreciating the fact that they do that. And you know, If we just take it for granted, these are unsung heroes within industry that's creating these trustworthy standards so that we industry could do more. How about that we just don't know about it. And and every time I go to these OMG events, I am always shocked by the level of professionalism, the level of passion, that each one of these members have to do what is right. And to constantly think they never stopped thinking. I always feel like, wow, I am. I don't, you know, level up to them. And I don't I don't I I'm, I'm honest. I could just be their cheerleader by by highlighting the fact that this exists out there. All right. That's Claude Seve. That's C E is the company. And all the contact information will be out there on industrial talk as you are well aware. All right. As for a platform, industrial talk, is that platform is the platform to tell your story. I would love for you to reach out I would love for your continued support of all these individuals, like Claude, because they're doing so much and you are doing a lot too as well. So go out to the industrial talk. Find out more. All right, people will be brave, greatly hanging out with Claude and you will be changing the world. We're gonna have another great conversation coming from OMG shortly so stay tuned.